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Design input needed on a 4.5" fixed blade

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by razor-edge-knives, Jul 13, 2019.

  1. razor-edge-knives

    razor-edge-knives Moderator Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 3, 2011
    Hey guys! Working on a fixed blade design on which I plan to do a run of 36 in Cruwear.

    It will have a flat saber grind as depicted with the edge set to 15-17 dps probably w/ micarta or terotuf scales w/ Torx fasteners. Here's some renders. I know everyone won't be happy w/ everything but I'm trying to lay this out well from the start so thoughts are welcome!!

    Goal for this is to be an all-purpose camp/hard use/beater fixed blade. Already had some good input on my subforum from @Boru13, @Twindog, @Fullflat and more but I wanted to open this up for more thoughts.

    So the things I'm looking for input on (as much as possible without having it in hand) are things like:
    • swedge/no swedge
    • keep the finger choil or bump the edge back and only make a small sharpening choil
    • move thumb ramp forward so your thumb has a natural resting place in a choked up grip?
    • bow drill recess placement
    • I also may need to re-think the ferro rod placement because in a choked up hammer grip I don't want the web of the hand getting snagged down in there
    • Size ok?
    • any other thoughts?
    I'll probably make the changes today and it should be 3D printed by Tuesday so I can feel it in hand before launching the production. My price goal for these is $250-325 which will include a simple taco type kydex sheath so keep that in mind when answering the above... Thanks for the help everyone!

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
    Sigsog226, 3fifty7, OilMan and 3 others like this.
  2. ScooterG

    ScooterG You mean Ireland? Yeah, it’s mine. Gold Member

    Mar 15, 2016
    No swedge.
    Keep the choil.
    Move the thumb ramp.
    Size is great.
    Looking good Josh :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  3. specgrade

    specgrade Gold Member Gold Member

    354
    Nov 21, 2009
    No swedge. It looks like a great user. Price range? D-2? I want one for cut bait, when I go fishing. Will there be a sheath? Daddy Likey! :D
     
    razor-edge-knives likes this.
  4. razor-edge-knives

    razor-edge-knives Moderator Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 3, 2011
    Thanks Scott! Appreciate the input very much.

    Price goal for these is $250-325 which will include a simple taco type kydex sheath w/ no belt loop - this would be purchased by the buyer on their own (just updated the OP). Cruwear is actually like an upgraded D2 (even stated in the datasheet), much tougher and higher harnesses are achievable.
     
  5. specgrade

    specgrade Gold Member Gold Member

    354
    Nov 21, 2009
    Sorry, I never heard of "Cruwear".
     
    razor-edge-knives likes this.
  6. ScooterG

    ScooterG You mean Ireland? Yeah, it’s mine. Gold Member

    Mar 15, 2016
    Would go for smaller “jimps” too.
     
    razor-edge-knives likes this.
  7. Velitrius

    Velitrius Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 3, 2000
    No swedge...

    Get rid of the finger choil and make the small sharpening choil. The finger notch in the grip is enough...

    This will allow you to leave the thumb ramp where it is...

    The size and price range are spot on. Nice looking piece!
     
  8. razor-edge-knives

    razor-edge-knives Moderator Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 3, 2011
    Ok... a few options w/ the choil and thumb ramp. Also, I'm really not sure if I should just do away w/ the ferro rod notch and go with a square spine in front of the jimping, maybe chamfer near the point and fade the chamfer to a square spine near the jimping.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Twindog

    Twindog Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 6, 2004
    Nice work, Josh. You acquire and employ new skills and new tools so fast it boggles the mind. Of course, you're going to get a lot of contradictory opinions. Overall, this is a really nice knife.
    • swedge/no swedge
    I'm agnostic. This is a cool design, but for me new designs take a while to sink in.

    • keep the finger choil or bump the edge back and only make a small sharpening choil
    I prefer a finger choil so I can choke up for detail work. I don't usually use that part of the blade anyway.

    • move thumb ramp forward so your thumb has a natural resting place in a choked up grip?
    I can't tell without holding the knife. I seldom like any jimping, but if you use jimping, I like larger jimping. I like a ramp so the thumb rests naturally in a normal grip position. If the ramp is deep enough and properly placed, the jimping is not needed.

    • bow drill recess placement
    I never understood this feature. In the wild, it takes about 30 seconds to find a suitable holder for the bow drill. Why would I want to beat up my knife handle? Either way, it wouldn't matter to me.

    • I also may need to re-think the ferro rod placement because in a choked up hammer grip I don't want the web of the hand getting snagged down in there
    Don't understand this. I almost never use a choked up hammer grip.

    • Size ok?
    Perfect.

    • any other thoughts?
    The plunge line is perfectly formed. It doesn't create a stress riser. So many knifemakers get this wrong.

    Great knife. I'm in. Edge width is important to me. I like 0.015 inches at the shoulders as a nice compromise between more efficient cutting and reasonable toughness, but you do lose a little of the hard-use element that you get with fatter edges. But if super hard use were that important, I'd prefer 3V or Vanadis 4E. In my perfect world, a custom knife should cut like a demon, which means narrower edges.
     
    DCFree and BellaBlades like this.
  10. 115Italian

    115Italian

    Nov 13, 2015
    I wouldn’t waste time with a bow drill recess. Keep the finger choil, based on your design it might be needed to prevent a thick spot on the edge at the plunge line. Overall looks really good.
     
  11. razor-edge-knives

    razor-edge-knives Moderator Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 3, 2011
    Thanks so much for writing this out Josey. I think we posted at the same time. You have written a ton of good thoughts, let me write out what I'm thinking below!

    • Swedge - I had it there for aesthetics mainly, but I had it to where the spine was left very thick still. But I'll probably do away w/ it since that seems to be the general consensus.
    • Finger choil -
      • what do you think about the last post above, latter pic? you chould still choke right up to the edge w/ out your finger getting up onto the edge, the nub would serve as a reference point. Or I could leave it as in the top pic of that same post...
      • I think @bikerector was correct in that the thumb ramp should be forward of the choil. I cut out a lifesize shape from some paper and it feels awkward as I have it in the first rendition - no where for your thumb to rest naturally in a choked up position.
      • when you hold a fixed blade choked up, do you normally rest your thumb on the spine?
    • Jimping - I think some 1/16" jimping would be perfect, and to make it not too crazy/sharp and uncomfortable I was gonna chamfer the corners (on each side the flats of the blade are on).
    • Bow drill recess - yeah I just put it there because it didn't hurt anything and I've seen other's do it so why not? lol. I actually may add a few more down that middle groove for some subtle improved traction, what do you think?
    • Steel choice and grind -
      • From AKS about Cruwear:
        "Z-Wear has almost as much toughness and much better edge holding than 3V. The composition is similar to 3V. It has the same amount of chromium, close to the same amounts of molybdenum and vanadium. However, it has much more carbon and 1% tungsten which 3V does not have.

        This high carbon alloy steel has enough chromium to have some corrosion resistance. Grind the edge thinner than normal. The steel is tough enough to support a very thin edge."
      • I will have to feel out the edge and do some testing to see what it can take where. I want this to be able to hold up to hard use but I feel like it could at .020" or so, esp. if I let the tip get a little wider when grinding. I'm sure we could work something out to make one thinner though ;)
     
  12. razor-edge-knives

    razor-edge-knives Moderator Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 3, 2011
    Good point on the choil... especially if I have the grind milled. but if I hand grind it I can resolve that w/ some 3D grinding action (twisting while grinding). Thanks for chiming in!
     
    Johnathon shelton and 115Italian like this.
  13. Twindog

    Twindog Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 6, 2004
    At this point, Josh, I have trouble adding feedback because I need to have the knife in my hand and to try it out before I really know what I'm talking about. I know you've given it a ton of thought, and you know knives. I'm buying the maker as much as the knife. Can't wait to get one.
     
  14. abcdef

    abcdef

    Oct 28, 2005
    Pointier point, more rounded butt.
     
    razor-edge-knives and Pomsbz like this.
  15. Halfneck

    Halfneck Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 30, 2005
    Personally I like the looks of the swedge in the 1st pic below, and prefer the jimping/ferro notch in the 2nd pic.

    I like jimping as long as it is not abrasive, and I'm not a fan of 90 degree spines anywhere near where I might place my thumb for added leverage. The whole ferro rod striking thing is usually better done with a small section of metal/saw blade that I have attached to the rod.

    The bow-drill divot is neat, but I like it more as an appearance/grip-enhancement thing. Put divots on both sides, and slightly chamfer the corby bolt holes to match and it would look cool in my opinion.

    Regardless, nice looking knife.

    [QUOTE="[​IMG][/QUOTE]
     
    razor-edge-knives likes this.
  16. halden.doerge

    halden.doerge I'll Sharpen Your Knife Gold Member

    Aug 17, 2014
    Agree on all.
     
    razor-edge-knives likes this.
  17. razor-edge-knives

    razor-edge-knives Moderator Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 3, 2011
    Here's an idea of what it will be like in hand... I have medium/lg hands

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Dallas T and bikerector like this.
  18. bikerector

    bikerector Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 16, 2016
    Really like the looks of these. Not sure if I like the one with the choil or without more. I think the choil-less one has a cleaner look.
     
  19. bikerector

    bikerector Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 16, 2016
    With how long that handle is, the choil doesn't seem needed. The swedge has the appearance that it could be rough on thumbs compared to a full-width spine. More of a personal preference and how I use knives, but i tend to use my off hand thumb a lot on the spine for finer carving tasks. A rounded swedge isn't bad, but I've had a few that were really bad, like one on a buck 119 in 5160 that I like a lot, except for that part of it which is enough to leave it home if I think I'll be doing a lot of wood working. 90-degree spines can be similarly rough but they're also quite useful, so I have mixed feelings on those.
     
    David Mary likes this.
  20. JJ_Colt45

    JJ_Colt45 Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 11, 2014
    I really like the blade shape ... one thing I would consider (without having it in hand I couldn't say but maybe you can feel and understand with it in hand) ...

    The thumb ramp ... the way it raises from the handle reminds me of a knife I have that is a great knife but the way the thump ramp comes off of the straight handle upwards ... it doesn't feel natural using it ... it's almost too high if that makes sense ...

    The knife I'm mentioning is the Spyderco Temperance II ... if that may help explain ...

    I might prefer the handle slightly curved downward ... especial a bit towards the butt so it was a more natural grip when you place your thumb on the thumb ramp ... it would allow more force and control in fine work feather sticks etc ...

    The straighter handle on the Temperance II ... makes it feel a bit awkward to hold and use that way ... hope I explained that well enough that it made sense ... ?

    But I really like the blade shape I can see it would fit a lot of uses ...

    I think the choil would be good on a knife this size ... jumping I would keep ... I would skip swedge ...

    And viewing your cutout in your hand I think a slight curve downward of the handle would make it a lot more comfortable ... just not to much curve so it will work in various grips ...

    Can't wait to see the finished product.
     
    razor-edge-knives likes this.

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