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Design input needed on a 4.5" fixed blade

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by razor-edge-knives, Jul 13, 2019.

  1. herisson

    herisson Knuckle dragging and mean minded Neanderthal Platinum Member

    Mar 11, 2013
    I believe it has been answered already but I felt like answering your original questions :

    This is a quick answer that's why I kept it short. If anybody liked the specs I dismissed abruptly, I apologize. It wasn't meant that way. And anyway, this is just my opinion and taste, based on my personal wood bumming experience.
     
    JJ_Colt45 and razor-edge-knives like this.
  2. SteelJunkee

    SteelJunkee Gold Member Gold Member

    876
    May 6, 2018
    Very nice design the handle seems very well thought :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:... Keep the gimping small and square that way they are perfect for scraping ferros and move the lanyard hole right to the center of the butt. And like everyone said no swedge and on my part no choil either. They catches everywhere when you are cutting. I hate them they are a deal breaker on a bushcrafting knife. Every time you want to cut a rope it end right there. Even the smallest ones are annoying as H... Bring that beautiful blade straight to the guard it will give you more cutting length. And with a 2/3 flat to convex grind... I would buy that.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  3. razor-edge-knives

    razor-edge-knives Moderator Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 3, 2011
    Thanks for the input! On the choil... I have to have something because I have to terminate the grind somewhere. You would either be left with a good bit of flat edge for probably .5" (which will lead to a recurve later when sharpening)or a really square plunge that willd evelop the same issue. I think the issue is figuring out a choil area that works and won't snag, that's why if I did a smaller one it would have the angled "choil" like this.

    [​IMG]
     
    SteelJunkee and JJ_Colt45 like this.
  4. razor-edge-knives

    razor-edge-knives Moderator Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 3, 2011
    btw the second 3d blade will be in hand tomorrow as depicted in post 27
     
    JJ_Colt45 likes this.
  5. JJ_Colt45

    JJ_Colt45 Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 11, 2014
    Agreed with this knife's design it needs the choil ... there would be no good way to transition the blade to the handle without causing a loss of certain type grips with the blade height ...

    I do understand some reasons why some don't like a choil ... but this knife is built for one and I think with the way the handle is designed (especially after adding the slight downward angle to it) ... that it will feel natural to hold in several grips ...

    I will say for me at least I see this as more a hunting/good all around camp knife ... but not especially for bushcrafting ... I think it could do alot of those tasks also ... but maybe not all ...

    I guess that's why I usually have at least three knives on me whether hunting or camping/hiking etc ...

    But it's good to see the feedback Josh is getting ... and I'm glad he has gotten a chance to start making his own knives ... I really like seeing the CAD drawings and the 3D printed versions it makes it alot easier to suggest anything ...

    I usually sharpen my own but with life being very crazy and hectic the last few years I have had Josh reprofile some blades for me that I just can't find the time to do by hand at home ... and he is a wizard with a real skill ... and I still have a reblade in mind we discussed a bit that when time and money allows I will be stoked to get into that ...
     
    David Lennon and Sharp & Fiery like this.
  6. razor-edge-knives

    razor-edge-knives Moderator Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 3, 2011
    Thank you for the input! But I think I'm going to keep them. I've gutted and quartered several pigs and deer and never had much of an issue w/ stuff getting on the handle (maybe only a tad). But I did make these recesses round so they should be easy to clean out and not hold onto stuff like something would w/ corners in the bottom :thumbsup:

    Quick note on the spine/jimping... yes I can certainly see the appeal of a rounded spine w/ maybe only fine jimping but I have to also take into account how labor intensive that would be and how much it would boost the price up. Trying to keep this an economical-ish piece means I will have to forego some options unfortunately :(

    On the choil issue... I can't say that I agree with you on that ;) There are always trade-offs with or without a choil, and it doesn't necessarily means that the handle was not done correctly or that the choil was necessarily needed. It may have just been a desired addition. Here's how I see it (if you have points to add to either I would love to hear them! :thumbsup:):

    Small sharpening choil:
    • Pros
      • edge comes back closer to handle which works in a choked up hammer grip, for a lot of leverage
      • more cutting edge (by about 3/8" on this model)
      • probably wouldn't snag as much
    • Cons
      • can't choke up right to the very edge itself for quite as fine of control
      • may have a thickening edge right before the choil depending how the plunge can be worked, or may not even be fully apexed
    But for dedicated bushcraft you may be right about not having one and terminating right into the guard or something.

    thank you I see you are correct :)

    I think I will, going for a more unique look

    Thanks its really neat on my end as well. I love making knives from the CAD to the final product, overlooking nothing (or at least, doing my best not to!! :))

    Thank you for verifying the choil and the comments! A few quick questions:
    1. what grips do you think you would lose when doing away with the finger choil?
    2. which bushcraft tasks do you see this design struggling with?
     
    FortyTwoBlades and JJ_Colt45 like this.
  7. JJ_Colt45

    JJ_Colt45 Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 11, 2014
    I think without the choil on this specific blade ... you would lose the ability to choke up for fine detail tasks ... one being skinning and preserving a animal hides or some carving tasks ...

    I think without the choil you would not have a safe reverse grip as your pinkie finger couldn't rest in the choil ... or if the handle was widen so it came downwards to meet the blade you would have a very wide handle into blade transition ...

    if you widen the handle to transition into the blade without some type of choil you would lose several grip options of not being able to choke up at all because of thickness at the front of the handle ... and if the handle were widened at the front to flow into the blade IMHO it would be a safety issue ...

    I think it would be fine with most brushcraft tasks ... exactly as designed ... because I know you will put the right geometry into the blade ...

    the only area I see a thinner (as in height wise) blade might be better for some carving task ... or if you went into caping an animal (which I prefer a much smaller blade overall anyway) ... or puncturing tasks ... which unless I were in a situation that I "needed to" which some people always want to bring up a survival situation ...

    Or the primitive living / camping some like to challenge themselves with ... a different blade shape could be better at some things ...

    it's not that this blade wouldn't do the same tasks ... like I said it's more geometry and skills ... and I know you will put the geometry on it to make it as versatile as possible ... but a bit longer and thinner in height blade might do a few "bushcrafty" (I really don't like that word myself ... but) ... things slightly better ...

    I'm hating this new phone changing my words !!!!! :mad: I post and read and have to go back because it's changing words ... shows I'm no techie.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
  8. razor-edge-knives

    razor-edge-knives Moderator Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 3, 2011
    Thanks man! Ok so just to clarify... you don't think you could choke up on this style blade w/ out the choil for some light tasks?

    [​IMG]

    Here is what I was thinking but I don't use these in a camping/bushcraft situation normally, so help from guys experienced in this area def. helps a ton! So hear me out and please contrast my opinion with other points if you have them from life experience or whatever else! I love hearing constructive criticism and this is the place for it - in the prototype stage.

    If we did go w/ the blade shape above, you could choke up to this nub, it feels like it would still be safe in hand. and you would gain the extra cutting edge would be the main advantage.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And hammer grip w/ your thumb over the top of the chamferred scale it would sorta act like a choked up position w/ the edge terminating right at your thumb.

    Regarding the reverse grip... it looks like there wouldn't be any issue with the pinkie rest? Not sure I followed there :)
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    115Italian, JJ_Colt45 and bluntcut like this.
  9. David Mary

    David Mary KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    231
    Jul 23, 2015
    This knife wants to be choppy. But removing that spine material will make it less so. Shouldn't affect it for small limbs and vegetation, though, and might make it better for the increased efficiency and speed of chopping. If I were the owner of this knife, I would be happy with it either way, but given its nature, would lean towards a heavier blade. But I have longer fingers, the height of the blade wouldn't bother me as much as someone maybe with smaller hands, or shorter fingers.

    I would be able to choke up fine with this. I would be able to choke up better with the full finger choil. But I like the look of this better, and would likely not find myself wishing for a full finger choil, as I think the performance and ergonomic difference would be minimal. I'm all for rounding the butt, making the tip pointier, and giving the handle a slight downward angle. This looks like a great knife concept, and I am sure with such a thoughtful maker behind it, it will be fabulous.
     
  10. JJ_Colt45

    JJ_Colt45 Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 11, 2014
    My reverse grip would be edge away from my body so my pinky would be by the blade's edge ...

    And I could choke up some but I have broad hands and to hammer grip it tightly it would put the blade real close to my hand/fingers ... the way the knife is in the picture ...

    I don't know positively because I can't hold the knife but I'll post a picture that may give you my reasoning for preferring the choil to choke up or for a tight hammer grip ... it's a Becker BK-16 ...

    20190702_132112_resized_1.jpg

    now if it had a bit of extension from the tang like this BK16 to give a point of stopping my fingers from gripping or sliding onto the blade edge ... my fingers are cramped slightly with the BK16 ... if I try to get them all on the actual scales ... I normally leave my pinkie back a bit but I squeezed it in so it was on the grip as much as it could be ...
     
    razor-edge-knives likes this.
  11. JJ_Colt45

    JJ_Colt45 Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 11, 2014
    Now I personally like the look of both designs ... this last one without the choil is a good looking knife ...

    and I would still be interested in it ... but for me and my hands I would look and love the design ... but wonder just how close my fingers would be ... so I may buy it to see ... or I might worry it's going to be close and not buy ...

    And I'm just one person ... and I have to consider those things with any knife ... I understand the average hand may not even think about that ...

    But both of the designs are really nice looking knives that I would be interested in ... I would just have to hold it to know for sure ...

    but I will add that if you went with the no finger choil version ... I would still like a small sharpening choil ... just my preference.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
    razor-edge-knives likes this.
  12. argyle1812

    argyle1812

    515
    Mar 6, 2016
    Looking good. Any chance of a preorder or something like it?
     
  13. razor-edge-knives

    razor-edge-knives Moderator Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 3, 2011
    Holding it in the reverse grip feels comfortable and the curve right there seems to act as a finger stop but I wouldn't know 100% until use. Shoot, worse case I could grind one in after - you can always take away metal but can't add it back again lol.

    in that render above my goal was for the plunge area curve to actually serve as a sharpening choil, terminating the edge all the way back to there. I maybe would have to extend it out very slightly from where it was in that render but not much.

    Anyway, we'll see! kinda undecided on the finger choil as I chink it would function well both ways but I do see the advantageg of getting some extra edge out of it. Gonna get this other printed proto in and see how it feels.

    no sorry, I will make them and list them for sale. Best way to follow progress is to stay tuned to my subforum and sign up for my newsletter ;)
     
  14. JJ_Colt45

    JJ_Colt45 Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 11, 2014
    Yeah I saw in the version you posted there was enough space that it would have ... or work as a sharpening choil.

    And I still like both designs ... it's your baby so go with what you like and want to put out ...

    I also think by the pictures of you holding it the handle is long enough even for a broader hand to have enough space to grip without getting up too close to the blade.
     
    razor-edge-knives likes this.
  15. David Mary

    David Mary KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    231
    Jul 23, 2015
    Given the design with a finger choil and without are basically otherwise identical, I'd probably build the knife without the choil, and with the taller blade, and then modify the blanks on a per needed basis if anyone wanted a custom with the choil or the narrower blade. You can't make everyone happy.... but you can come close.
     
    JJ_Colt45 and razor-edge-knives like this.
  16. jstrange

    jstrange

    Mar 31, 2012
    I am probably not the intended market for this knife, but I like the swedge and choil. As always, awesome work Josh. Love to see the progress you have made over the years. For your next project, how about a thin, slicey fixed blade around 3.5”?
     
    David Lennon and David Mary like this.
  17. razor-edge-knives

    razor-edge-knives Moderator Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 3, 2011
    You never know bro! I love a real slicey blade to be sure ;)

    ______________________________________________________________

    So check it out, printed proto came in today! You can see the changes from the first :

    • I angled the handle downwards slightly
    • changed some of the curves up subtly along w/ the palm swell location (barely moved forward)
    • Made the butt of the handle a little bit thicker/wider
    • extended the thumb ramp a little bit and switched jimping to 1/16" and chamferred
    • switched screw recesses up to work w/ flat head torx screws, matching the 'theme' of the handle better imho
    • rounded the the corners on the pommel area a bit and chamferred the lanyard hole
    The only immediate things that jumps out to me is that I need to use 3/8" thick scales instead of 1/4, it's a little thin in hand right now. Secondly I'm going to make the divots a little shallower in the handle.

    But man I'm torn about the choil!! W/ the new thumb ramp it really allow for comfortable multi position thumb placement on the spine. I guess I'll have to decide in the end lol

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    JJ_Colt45, David Mary and Twindog like this.
  18. Twindog

    Twindog Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 6, 2004
    I really like how it's turning out, Josh.

    I'd vote for the finger choil.

    The only thing that worries me is the forward-most lightening hole under the scales. It's forward of the first bolt, so those thin boundaries will be exposed to a lot of force, and that would be a weak place in the design. I had a custom knife that had that kind of issue, and while it didn't break, it gave the blade a lot of flex which caused the scales to come loose. Bluntcut fixed that issue when I had him do a re-heat treat. He moved the scales forward and tightened everything up. The knife has been rock solid since.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. razor-edge-knives

    razor-edge-knives Moderator Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 3, 2011
    Dude... thank you for pointing that out I was actually just thinking about how I needed to change up the skeletonizing to make it stronger. Ok I'll eliminate the forward hole.
     
  20. Ajack60

    Ajack60 Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Apr 21, 2013
    Keep the smaller choil, it goes with the knife. On this type of knife, losing a small portion of the blade isn't going to affect the performance of the knife and it's intended use.
     

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