Designing a new Neck Knife

[David Mary]

Good afternoon friends. As I mentioned briefly in GKD here, neck knives - and my difficulty finding a maker to make me a custom one - were perhaps the largest motivator that pushed me into knife making. Somehow I got away from them for a long time, and mostly started using and carrying belt and pocket knives, both fixed and folders, but neckers have always been in the back of my mind, and now after about 10 years as a full on knife afi, and 5 years since I started learning to be a knife maker, I think it's finally time to get back to what first gave me a passion for knives: the ever present, easy to carry and supremely useful necker.

My introduction to the neck knife, and thus the world of knives as EDC tools, was the little bitty CRKT minimalist wharncliffe. Those who know me best know that I am a big fan of wharncliffes, and the reason is that this first EDC knife of mine proved itself to be the ounce for ounce the most useful piece kit I ever carried on my person.

My goal in this thread is to come up with a neck knife design that will appeal to not only people who already like neck knives, but also act as a piece to convert those who don't like them by overcoming and avoiding the pitfalls that many often associate with neck knives. In short, I want to make a neck knife that will be viewed by many as close to "perfect" or "ideal" with as few compromises as possible. Yes, it's ambitious, but I believe we can achieve it. Also, because I believe in customization, whatever the design ends up being, I intend to set it up so I can produce it in a variety of blade shapes according to individual users' wishes for.

Eventually, once we have a design that most can agree is very good, we'll discuss prototypes and passarounds, and of course anyone who contributes to the discussion, passarounds and reviews will receive my gratitude in the form of preferred pricing on the knife once it's produced.


ETA: Due to the small amount of response, the variability of opinions, and my limited resources, I have decided to forego a pass around stage at this time. In addition to a few one offs, I have come up with a slender design and variations due for a first production in early 2021 in AEB-L based on the "Super Pointy Wharncliffe" I made last year. I will see how these go first, and explore the possibility of a new model again in the future. Thanks to all for your input.

 

[David Mary]

So I'll get the discussion started with some ideas. In the other thread, I found good input as far as the basic features of a neck knife, in terms of what I would consider "mandatory" features in order for it to have broad appeal, usefulness and safety.

1) attached with a breakaway cord to prevent possible strangulation
2) Secured in a kydex sheath, or boltaron for hot climates where Kydex can start to lose its shape and retention
3) Lightweight
4) Stainless

Anything else?

 

[herisson]

It seems to me this is a good base to start. I vote for an upswept blade with a straight handle !

 

[woodysone]

As for the handle, something secure, finger groves, ring, contouring and should be large enough for ham fisted people and small enough for fine work.

 

[bikerector]

Since you're trying to convert non-neck knife people to carry a neck knife I believe a convertible sheat would be helpful. Something that's easy to go from neck to pocket to belt, etc. Maybe an easily removable/attachable clip that snaps on or something.

I think overall straight handles are more universal for such a carry as well. I personally don't mind the likes of the Esee izula or Bradford guardian 3.5 even though I don't own either anymore, for various reasons. I think the Fred Perrin Bowie would be an interesting handle profile for a neck knife, I wouldn't desire something with a blade as long for weight reasons. I would rather put that OAL into the handle.

Knowing how well you change the blade shape from a blank allowing some room for modification, I wouldn't get too stuck on the minute details of the blade shape, get the handle and sheath system dialed in and let your customers choose the blade option they want.

Lastly, while I think a no-handle slab way of carry is the best way to get a very flat knife, attaching very thin micarta or G10 should do wonders for the grip, aesthetics, and comfort. I think the CRKT minimalist had such a thing, like 1/8" or less thick scales with some slight rounding of the edges.

 

[David Mary]

Well, I already had a neck knife build in progress, basically I had a piece of 1084 cutoff that was a strange shape, so I decided to see what I could do with it. Would you believe it became a wharncliffe?



Also, here is a design I have been playing around with. I have always liked the concept of the Fred Perrin La Griffe (French for "The Claw"), but I always felt the implementation was lacking. Particularly with regard to the angle of the point in relation to the handle. I acknowledge that there are folks who like an upswept design, but I have never been able to use them as comfortably for general cutting tasks as a blade with a lower point and/or more negative blade to handle angle.



Here's another possibility for the design or a variant thereof:



I don't know how feasible it would be to adapt a design with a ring for a straight handle, or rather I am not sure how comfortable such a design would be in use.

However, I have recently revisited using reclaimed materials for blade steel, particularly hand saws. And I have made myself a little shop knife which has just over a 3" handle, and a 3 3/4" blade. I gave it thick G10 scales, and normally this would make a knife very heavy for its size, but the 1 mm thick blade stock has this thing light as a feather. Yet the blade is surprisingly rigid and strong. And needless to say with its thin geometry the cutting ability is off the charts.

So this got me to thinking, what about an ambidextrous neck knife, or rather a neck dagger? I could give it a symmetrical profile, a double edge, and an even lighter material like micarta or wood. The result would be a relatively large knife that could be quickly accessed and used either left or right handed, and which would still be very light and easy to carry.

So I am still going through the design and concept process, but I would be interested in hearing more thoughts on any of this, or new thoughts.

 

[David Mary]

Here's the shop knife. Nothing pretty, but just a "proof of concept" piece for me to evaluate handsaw steel in a utility role. I already know it is a fairly common reclaimed material for filet knives. It is triple normalized, heat treated, and tempered at 400°. So far it's living up nicely to expectations of a shop knife.

 

[Cycklone]

Neck knives are my 2nd love -- So I will follow this most definitely!!

To me the Warncliff or reverse Tanto are the best blade shapes--
For me, I prefer a 3 finger with a landyard hole-- (550 lanyard if I need pinky purchase)
I would also say that 6.5" is about max for a true neck knife (that 2nd "prototype" design is almost 7.5")

instead of having the 4 holes (2 Lg & 2 Sm) would a straight cutout be more time saving and lighter (less material making it cheaper?)
could 550 wrap then (or does this make it more difficult to put slabs on-so making it would then be more time intensive)

 

[David Mary]

Good thoughts here, thank you.

instead of having the 4 holes (2 Lg & 2 Sm) would a straight cutout be more time saving and lighter (less material making it cheaper?)

It depends. The ones in AEB-L will be plasma cut, so it doesn't really make a difference at that point. For the ones in 1084, I've been doing them by hand, and yes, I have been using a straight cutout often to save both time and weight. But it looks like these ones I'll be moving to water jet, as well as 15N20, so there again I don't think it will make a discernible difference in the price.

could 550 wrap then (or does this make it more difficult to put slabs on-so making it would then be more time intensive)

I hadn't though of offering cord wrapped. It's a possibility. I do prefer scales though, as I feel it's a bit counter-intuitive to have cord "always on hand" which already has a job to do. I prefer some light wood or micarta, and the cord in my pack or pocket, waiting for a job, not being called from one to another.

 

[David Mary]

My 3/32" 15N20 has finally made it across the border, so my first big batch of neckers will be done in that. Given it will be waterjet cut, I won't be tied to a single design, but can make a variety. I'll be offering these ones at the lowest price I can afford, so anyone interested in a specific design, feel free to chime in or contact me at my email address to dial in your chosen design. herisson interested in a straight handled upswept necker in 15N20?

 

[woodysone]

I’d be interested like the first drawing with a straight handle or a little negative angle. Thanks David

 

[David Mary]

So this with the handle a little straighter Martin?

I can do that.

 

[woodysone]

Like the middle drawing in post #6.

 

[David Mary]

Like the middle drawing in post #6.

That's the same one I put in post #12. Just trying to make sure I understand - you want the handle a little less angled, correct?

 

[woodysone]

Half way between the middle and the third drawing would be nice.

 

[herisson]

My 3/32" 15N20 has finally made it across the border, so my first big batch of neckers will be done in that. Given it will be waterjet cut, I won't be tied to a single design, but can make a variety. I'll be offering these ones at the lowest price I can afford, so anyone interested in a specific design, feel free to chime in or contact me at my email address to dial in your chosen design. herisson interested in a straight handled upswept necker in 15N20?

Oh, yes, absolutely !

 

[David Mary]

Okay great! I'll draw something up and post it here for your approval. I'll try to do it today, but if not, it will be Wednesday.

 

[woodysone]

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

 

[David Mary]

Martin, here are a couple options:



I'll do yours next herisson

 

[David Mary]

Okay Herisson, here is an idea. Straight hande relative to the blade, and an upswept blade with a bit of broadness to it to allow for a great geometry to strength ratio at 3/32" thick. The handle may look a little strange, but it is based on my Super Pointy Wharncliffe design, which I gave flat scales and found it to excel in every grip, as can be seen in its thread here: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/sold-super-pointy-wharncliffe-neck-knife.1739723/

I would skeletonize it to lose weight for you as well.



I won't be insulted if you don't like it, or have something else in mine. Feel free to give your input into what you'd like in your necker, whether it's a little more belly, less length, or a complete overhaul to the design. You provide the ideas, and I'll make them into a knife for you.