Did Map kill off the Police 4?

cbrstar

cbrstar

Joined
Sep 7, 2015
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When I first got into Spyderco's the Police 4 really spoke to me. But I couldn't tell though if it was right fit for me. As at the time I was used to much smaller knives and was hesitant on buying such a large knife. I ended up handling a PM2 at the local shop and chose that instead.

Months later I ended up buying a used Police 3 fairly inexpensively. Fell in freaking LOVE with it. My favorite part was just how slim it was and how nice it fit in my pocket. Been in my EDC rotation ever since.

I've been thinking about buying a Native Chief for the last while, but when I saw that the Police 4 is getting canned in 2020 my heart skipped a beat. Suddenly found myself motivated to get the P4...But the price increase has really really shocked me.
I can buy the Native Chief for the same price I USED to be able to buy the P4! The P4 has shot up over $50 Canadian. ( And it's on sale no less)

I'm not afraid to admit I'm way too thrifty to spend the extra money. The new price is a huge turn off.

I can't help wonder did other people feel like me and this is why the P4 is now replaced with a much cheaper LW model? If the p4 went back to the old pricing would it still be selling well?
 
I have recently purchased the Native Chief, and Police Lightweight. Both are keepers. The Amalgum is no slouch either.
I wasn't interested in the new G-10 version because of the price. I like to stay between $70-$150. I'm not familar with M390 Bohler either. I feel comfortable with S30V, and VG-10. I was disappointed that they went to the trouble of modifying the blade shape, but STILL didn't update the handle to accommodate a freak'in lanyard hole on one of the clip sides. I don't understand. (same with the Military)
The old blade shape made the Police distinct, and easy to discern from the others. I have an older G-10, and the new FRN. I'm good.
 
mwhich50 said:
I have recently purchased the Native Chief, and Police Lightweight. Both are keepers. The Amalgum is no slouch either.
I wasn't interested in the new G-10 version because of the price. I like to stay between $70-$150. I'm not familar with M390 Bohler either. I feel comfortable with S30V, and VG-10. I was disappointed that they went to the trouble of modifying the blade shape, but STILL didn't update the handle to accommodate a freak'in lanyard hole on one of the clip sides. I don't understand. (same with the Military)
The old blade shape made the Police distinct, and easy to discern from the others. I have an older G-10, and the new FRN. I'm good.
Click to expand...

The Police LW is good value for the money, and I keep forgetting about the Amalgum. (Which here is only $6 cheaper then the P4). But the thing is when I was originally looking around Nov last year a PM2 was $180-$200 (In our money) and the P4 was only $220-$230. Not a huge jump for a premium steel. But everyone kept telling me the p4 was ridiculously big and not really practical. Now fast forward I can still get a PM2 for about $192.00 but the P4 has skyrocketed to $275-$285. (The NC is $220 and the smock is $230). I feel like the price is getting into the area of other interesting knives like ZT and Lion Steel.
 
The Police 4 isnt getting canned. You can get a P4 LW (as you mention yourself). Designs evolve. The LW is more in line with the original target audience.

If pricing is too rich for you (and quality knives dont come cheap, I get that), just move on to cheaper knives/brands. Plenty of other nice quality blades out there.

Both the Military and the Police are favorites of mine. I never hankered for a lanyard on either. Its not like theres not plenty of real estate there.
 
BladeScout said:
The Police 4 isnt getting canned. You can get a P4 LW (as you mention yourself). Designs evolve. The LW is more in line with the original target audience.
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I guess I should have been more specific, I'm talking about the C07GP4 - Police 4 G-10. But how is the LW more in line with the original target audience? I guessing the original target were Police Officers. Are they more likely to buy a FRN knife? Or is it more Spyderco's tradition of making a cheaper LW version when the model has poor sales?

BladeScout said:
If pricing is too rich for you (and quality knives dont come cheap, I get that), just move on to cheaper knives/brands. Plenty of other nice quality blades out there.
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Sorry but too late... I've already bought a little over 10 Spyderco's this year, a few BM's and other knives. All I'm asking is if the price hike put people off the knife or did it not sell for other reasons? I'm just curious to hear peoples opinions if a automatic price increase puts the final nail in the coffin for some knives. And do companies like Spyderco plan for this to free up shelf space?

BladeScout said:
Both the Military and the Police are favorites of mine. I never hankered for a lanyard on either. Its not like theres not plenty of real estate there.
Click to expand...
They are favorites of mine to. I have a blurple military and the knife center Ti/Carbon exclusive but I do tend to carry my Police 3 more. I wish I could handle the Native Chief in person as I'm not the kind of person who will play with a knife for 5 mins then return it. When I buy a knife it's in the hopes I can keep it it for life.
 
cbrstar said:
But how is the LW more in line with the original target audience? I guessing the original target were Police Officers.
Click to expand...

The origins of the Police Model go back to the earliest days of Spyderco knives. When company founder Sal Glesser redefined the form of the modern folding knife back in 1981, some of the very first end users to embrace our unconventional designs were law enforcement officers.
..........
While the design refinements and enhanced blade steel of the Police 4 make it an outstanding cutting tool, they also made it more expensive and somewhat less suitable for its original audience—law enforcement officers. To remedy that, Spyderco created the all-new Police 4 Lightweight.
- Spyderco Byte September 2019
 
BladeScout said:
The origins of the Police Model go back to the earliest days of Spyderco knives. When company founder Sal Glesser redefined the form of the modern folding knife back in 1981, some of the very first end users to embrace our unconventional designs were law enforcement officers.
..........
While the design refinements and enhanced blade steel of the Police 4 make it an outstanding cutting tool, they also made it more expensive and somewhat less suitable for its original audience—law enforcement officers. To remedy that, Spyderco created the all-new Police 4 Lightweight.
- Spyderco Byte September 2019
Click to expand...

I gotta wonder should have the K390 been a sprint run instead of a regular model? That way there would still be a G10 VG10 option for people.

Well... I actually found one at the original price of $230 here in Canada :cool::thumbsup:. Never bought from this place before so I'm crossing my fingers all goes well. Besides my two military's I kinda promised myself BITD that I would never ever have multiples of a knife to ensure that I'd always use it and not store it. So we'll see. Might gift the P3 to a friend or something. I'm pretty excited as not originally buying this knife over a year ago bothered me for a long time.

The Native Chief looks like a amazing knife as well. I was originally super excited for it when it came out but couldn't get it here in Canada, then when the first batch arrived they immeaditally sold out. Months passed by and I had cooled off about it. Still can't get it out of my mind though :oops: Well maybe I'll treat myself for my birthday or Christmas.
 
I am sure Police 4 LW is a great knife but after owning Police 4 G10 K390 and seeing it on sale for $170, I don't the reasoning of picking the FRN VG-10 verson over it for the money. The steels are not even close and the g10 version is not heavy at all. Mine is smooth with solid lockup. It cuts like no other steels business.
 
I just found out the company I ordered from has a terrible rep. They show the stuff in stock but really they don't have it. It can take months for your stuff to show up if at all. Not sure what to do. :(
 
The G-10 P4 was meant to introduce the model and prove out interest in a lightweight version. Apparently it succeeded.
The P4 is a large design that many people won't buy for that reason alone. Personally I don't love the handle ergos or aethetics of the knife. I do like the Seki FRN line though. With nested liners you get strength and durability with less weight and cost.
 
I think it was meant to die off fast, or expected anyway. Big knives aren't the best sellers, nor is nonstainless steel, and as mentioned it was expensive. I think Spyderco/Sal know enough about the market to know it was never going to be a big seller and instead treated it as a sprint slash test of the design before making the FRN molds.

It also had the benefit of making the lightweight version seem cheap, when it really isn't. Compare the Endura. At $50-60 in days of old, people called it a good deal and argued it was best at its price point. Now at like $80, no one says that. $80 for frn and vg10 is not a deal. I paid $60 for g10 and xhp from another brand, and that wasn't on sale. The LW P4 is significantly more expensive than the Endura.

Coming out with the more expensive g10 model first and then a frn version dubbed lightweight for cheapER has Spyderco killing it for sure. FRN versions sell for what g10 versions did a few years ago, yet they are considered cheap. Good on Spyderco for find8ng a model that gets sales and makes for happy customers.
 
AF said:
The G-10 P4 was meant to introduce the model and prove out interest in a lightweight version. Apparently it succeeded.
The P4 is a large design that many people won't buy for that reason alone. Personally I don't love the handle ergos or aethetics of the knife. I do like the Seki FRN line though. With nested liners you get strength and durability with less weight and cost.
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I like FRN to but given the choice I'll always choice G10 or Micarta over it.

nephron said:
Is importing them(OP here send it to you) a no no? $107.25 at Blade Hdqr.
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Being in Canada you are always at a risk importing a folder that it will get seized at the boarder. It's stupid, it's not illegal to own such a knife but they managed to make it illegal to import them. So if I can I always try to go through a Canadian retailer that already has them.

kreole said:
I think it was meant to die off fast, or expected anyway. Big knives aren't the best sellers, nor is nonstainless steel, and as mentioned it was expensive. I think Spyderco/Sal know enough about the market to know it was never going to be a big seller and instead treated it as a sprint slash test of the design before making the FRN molds.

It also had the benefit of making the lightweight version seem cheap, when it really isn't. Compare the Endura. At $50-60 in days of old, people called it a good deal and argued it was best at its price point. Now at like $80, no one says that. $80 for frn and vg10 is not a deal. I paid $60 for g10 and xhp from another brand, and that wasn't on sale. The LW P4 is significantly more expensive than the Endura.

Coming out with the more expensive g10 model first and then a frn version dubbed lightweight for cheapER has Spyderco killing it for sure. FRN versions sell for what g10 versions did a few years ago, yet they are considered cheap. Good on Spyderco for find8ng a model that gets sales and makes for happy customers.
Click to expand...

That's true, I didn't really think about it in terms of the Endura costs. Heck I'm not 100% sure but I think the new Stretch sprint run is even cheaper.
 
cbrstar said:
All I'm asking is if the price hike put people off the knife or did it not sell for other reasons? I'm just curious to hear peoples opinions if a automatic price increase puts the final nail in the coffin
Click to expand...
I just ordered one yesterday.
As far as price if it were VG-10 steel, just to pull an example out of the air, I would have yawned and moved on. I have WAY TOO MANY knives that I LOVE but are in too basic (not hard enough) steel to suit my tastes.
But
since the P4 that I bought was in K390 I hardly looked at price. I was SO HAPPY to get a good useful knife in this premium steel that I'm willing to pay a premium for it . . . a considerable premium.

Seems like nearly all of my fave users are either in VG-10, which is OK but pretty much the bottom of the barrel that can still make me smile in use, . . . or worse my fave users are in SS or CV that just makes me pissed that I can't get better steel in those knives.

THIS IS THE 21st CENTURY KIDS ! ! ! !
WHY THE BLAZES ARE WE FORCED INTO USING SUCKY, SOFT BLADE STEEL IN OTHER WISE HIGH QUALITY CLASSIC KNIVES ? ? ? ? ?

Mmmmmmmmmmmm K390 . . . 63HRC . . . 64HRC . . . 65HRC ! ! !
Here . . . take my wallet !
I'm so starved for real blade steel ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
 
There isn't a production G10 Endura right now but wouldn't say the Endura is killed off. I think it's par for the course for Japanese back lock spydies to debut in G10 + exotic steel, then the LW version remains. That is until sprints, etc.
 
I used to always prefer G-10 to FRN. Now I more highly value a lightweight knife. FRN with liners is my preference.
 
I have 2 Police 3 G10 knives and a Police 4 G10. For me VG10 is only good for
defensive carry as it looses it's edge too fast for me. It is very stainless
and tough so it is a great infrequent use steel that also takes a darksider edge.
The Police 4 has K390 which has superb edge retention but is not corrosion
resistant at all...bummer. But still epic.
I got my new native chief today. I am surprised at how nice it is and am glad
it is S30V...stainless, keeps an edge well, easy to sharpen. It is a hit for me.
Both of the police models feel more premium in hand...and lots heavier because
of the liners. But the Chief has an aesthetic that is epic and feel in hand is
premium. @156 I think the price is too high by 20 dollars or so. I am not a
fan of Spyderco pricing now...I paid 188 for my Shaman...which is fair,
but in the not too far past Spydies tended to be RAGING bargains.
I don't think they are now...and I don't like it too much BUT...
They still have to make payroll and the economy is not as happy joy joy
as some claim. The Manix is still a RAGING bargain IMHO...

I now hate FRN BTW. I really prefer G10 or Ti or Carbon fiber.
I love my Police 4. It is like the most epic Endura ever. I want a M390
one. Badly. Ultra stainless, tough enough, great edge retention.
What's not to love?
 
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