Dissenter from the flat grind bandwagon

M

Mark Spark

Joined
Jun 1, 2020
Messages
158
That’s me.
I have nothing against flat grinds. The problem is every time Cold Steel converts a model from hollow to flat, the thickness behind the edge (TBE) goes way up. Recon 1’s for example with flat grind are 0.040” TBE. I don’t have a hollow ground recon 1, but the Code 4 tanto , which is hollow, is about 0.020”. I just bought an Espada large (the Al version). All the pictures show it hollow ground but it’s flat. TBE is horrible at 0.037-0.043”.
So what you say? If you measure cutting performance by the perceived force needed to make the cut, TBE is more important than sharpness, edge angle or handle comfort. Flat vs hollow, all else equal, doesn’t even show up.
If you don’t believe that, here’s an experiment you can do. Forget about cardboard cutting, rope cutting etc. They take too long and don’t bring out differences. Instead get a piece of Douglas fir 1x2. Carve chips off the end. Test your knives. Instantly you’ll see big differences in performance. Doug fir is hard and tough and you have to push hard. But the same differences occur with cardboard, it’s just harder to tell with the lower force.
BTW, my 6” Holdout is flat ground but it’s an amazing cutter at about 0.014” TBE. So flat ground doesn’t need to be stupid thick.
So why are new CS knives so high in TBE? I don’t know. Does anyone out there? I don’t even know any advantage to high TBE, except maybe hammering through nails, which is stupid. I suspect flat grind allows a cheaper, sloppier production process. Maybe belt vs wheel or something.
Maybe it’s just general dumbing down of knives. Spyderco popularized flat grinds so everyone wants flat grind. Well, change to flat if you want, but stop blowing out the TBE!
I always wanted a Tai Pan. But a review said they made the 3V’s flat. Forget it, I’m sick of knives that cut poorly. Can you imagine what a chisel it would be?
 
BTW, other than the edge, the large Espada 62MB is the best folding knife I’ve ever seen. It is simply spectacular. I predict this thing will be in museum shows one day, like the Ducati 916. I’m only whining about the edge because I’m a perfectionist.
 
I like flat grind, im glad they switched to flat grind. And yes i use my knives to cut stuff, in most edc tasks it really made no different. Yes including breaking down a ton of boxes.
IMO the whole BTE thing is a new youtuber fad to have more things to complain about. How many of those 0.01” BTE and 10,000grit mirror polished elitists actually use their knife enough to tell the difference.
 
Mark Spark said:
That’s me.
So flat ground doesn’t need to be stupid thick.
So why are new CS knives so high in TBE? I don’t know. Does anyone out there?
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My guess would be that they wanted it thick enough to pass all their toughness tests. But I hear ya, for folders especially, and for small fixed blades also, I prefer knives that cut extremely well. Hollow grinds can cut better, no question. I can live with a large blade that is a sharpened pry bar, but you want small blades to be thin and scary sharp.
 
As long as the blade is initially ground correctly it really doesn’t matter if it is flat or hollow ground.

Now multiple sharpenings later is where the hollow grind shines.

It doesn’t matter to me cause I like sharpening and I have the tools needed to thin a knife if need be.
 
I’m quite happy with both my HG and FFG knives. They both cut well in my experience. I agree with you about the Code 4. That baby’s got a lean TBE and cuts like a dream, hell yeah.
 
Out of 20 or Cold Steels that I carry, I've reground all but 2 of the flat ground models. I did not regrind the Hold Out III or the Rajah III.
So yeah, I hear ya on prefering a thinner edge. I use a 1 X 30" or a 4 X 36" sander when I'm regrinding. They may not look perfect when I'm done but they're CS and they often don't look that pretty to begin with. I've found that ceramic belts are the way to go with hardened steel.
I think most knife buyers aren't that focused on TBE and a stronger edge means less damage and potential warranty claims.
 
Manufacturers generally choose to produce thicker edges to account for users who will abuse their knives.

The average person doesn't know what a high performance grind is and will never notice.

This reduces the amount of warranty claims for the manufacturer.
 
Mitchell Knives said:
Manufacturers generally choose to produce thicker edges to account for users who will abuse their knives.

The average person doesn't know what a high performance grind is and will never notice.

This reduces the amount of warranty claims for the manufacturer.
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Absolutely! Especially since there is a CS Moderator on here who see's all of the testing(torturing) their knives go through by people on this forum and Youtube too. Luckily for me as long that as they are sharp and I pick the right knife for the task I have 0 problems.
 
Mark Spark said:
I'm curious, what is the best way to thin a knife in your opinion?
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There really is no best way.

Most pros will use a powered belt.
I use course stones and relieve the shoulder of bevel if the edge is too thick.

Every factory knife needs some work done to it and thinning the edge is usually one of those things that needs to be done.
 
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