Dive Knife for a Navy Rescue Swimmer - Recommendations.

Carl_First_Timer

Carl_First_Timer

Joined
Dec 6, 2010
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I just found out a very close family friend's son is attending School to become a Navy Rescue Swimmer. He grew up in front of my eyes into the young man he is today. I have been looking into "stain resistant" knife making materials, and "grippy" handle materials to give to him upon graduation. Hopefully you guys can help me out with some tips and recommendations.

HANDLE
The thinking was to go with a horse stall mat, stacked handle. Having never worked with the stuff I was wondering what opinions there are on this working. Also how well would it hold up to use? If the consensus would be that it would not work, and no other strong ideas come forward, my fallback would be rough milled, and sandblasted G10.

BLADE MATERIAL
And for the blade I have heard H1, Talonite, 440C, etc... I would like your opinions on a knife blade material that if Properly taken care of in a saltwater environment will not corrode excessively, yet hold a sharp edge. I envision recreational knives rusting because it is not treated like a tool, it is treated more like a toy(my opinion). This will be equipped as a tool, that can and probably will be saving lives, and treated as such.

Any help is always much appreciated.

I am very happy to be in a situation that I can provide this to him upon graduation. And would like him to be able to rely on this knife through whatever situation(s) necessary.
 
I've seen some Titanium knives aimed at saltwater/diving scenarios. They don't get near the HRC of steel but can be very tough and corrosion proof almost. I know nothing about the various grades of titanium, so I can't say much else.
 
As far as the stall mat goes, I have had a heck of a time getting it finished to a comfortable grit. maybe a grinder would do better, but it sure doesn't like hand stuff. I know other people have made it work, and so I think it is just me.

As far as steel goes, I really think titanium might be perfect for this. if it is carbidized, it will also give it somewhat of a micro serrated edge with use. It sounds like it would work. However, I won't say a thing about heat treating it ;)
 
Holding a sharp edge is one thing you said. I have a titanium Katana blade that was given to me and I have done lots of research on it's heat treat and hardness/edge holding and wouldn't use titanium as a first, second or third choice.
apologize as I only use 1080/1084 at this time, so i can't offer more advice on which steel to use from personal experience beyond my EDC knives. My S30V and CM154 EDC knives have never shown any sign of rust. Not much saltwater exposure but I once lost my Gerber 06 Auto under a house with groundwater issues. It sat in an intermittent puddle for 6 months with zero rust. The S30V holds an edge slightly better.
How about CPM154? With my "research", it's what I plan on using when I go to stainless.
Hope I helped.
 
For the blade use a use a nitrogen stainless steel. You listed H1 which is a good steel but I've never found a source for the raw sheets. Nitrogen stainless steels that are available are N680 and Vanax. Both steels specifically resist salt water corrosion.

For the handle use a yellow G10. The color yellow is important because it makes the knife easier to see/find underwater. Coarse texture on the handle will be less likely to slip from the divers hand.
 
Chuck Bybee said:
For the blade use a use a nitrogen stainless steel. You listed H1 which is a good steel but I've never found a source for the raw sheets. Nitrogen stainless steels that are available are N680 and Vanax. Both steels specifically resist salt water corrosion.

For the handle use a yellow G10. The color yellow is important because it makes the knife easier to see/find underwater. Coarse texture on the handle will be less likely to slip from the divers hand.
Click to expand...

How well is the N680 and Vanax edge holding ability? Is one better than the other in edge holding while being worse in corrosion resistance, and vice versa? I got some elmax from you recently, what do you think of that stuff if properly cared for?

Thanks for the info.
 
I'm not normally a fan of the heavy carving some folks do on knife handles, but in this situation it has uses since you're going to have neoprene and salt water between the knife and the user. Some physical shape to enhance grip rather than comfort is worthwhile.

I'm clueless about the steels, I already learned from previous posts in this thread. I wouldn't have had a clue about the nitrogen stainless versus others. Likewise on handle materials, I'm not familiar with how most respond to salt water on an regular basis. However, do careful research on your adhesive and go for a strong mechanical attachment too. Corby bolts come to mind if the material allows for them. Just make sure to use an appropriate thread lock compound as well, just in case. Just don't use copper or brass corbies. :)
 
I made a dive knife for my son and a knife to take kayaking for me. I purposely wet the 440c blade and put it back in the kydex sheath several time during the day and it did not rust but did get some spots. For the next I would like to try CPM 154 CM I think it is a bit more resistant to salt water. I had a discussion with another knifemaker about salt water and horse stall matt and we tried the grip when wet, its a bit wierd and not to my liking. I did rough micarta handles and still like them.

Consider handle color when selecting the handle material, I have use orange micarta and you can see it in the water if dropped, most dive knives are lost and not broken. A lanyard is also needed as well as a good fitting sheath.
 
I like how my grip on G10 increases when my hand/handle is wet.
That's about all I can contribute. Yellow sounds nice. :-)

-Daizee
 
Patrickknives said:
Consider handle color when selecting the handle material, I have use orange micarta and you can see it in the water if dropped, most dive knives are lost and not broken. A lanyard is also needed as well as a good fitting sheath.
Click to expand...

I am leaning toward the Yellow Chuck recommended, with Orange liners to fill out the high visibility requirements. I'll probably mill some grippy pattern into the surface as well.

As for the sheath and loosing a knife, I am in the early stages of thought on a reliable one that is easy to open with gloves on, that doesn't come loose easily, or catch on anything. :P Take about an oxymoron. :confused:

I'm thinking a good fitting kydex sheath with plenty of retention (i'll probably flare the end somewhat for help in retracting from the sheath) with a secondary strap. For the strap I'm thinking a SST overlay bent to recess away from the proud surface of the sheath and then angle slightly away from the body to allow a fingertip grip to pop the strap snap off. Need to test it though.
 
I would make a stacked handle with yellow or orange canvas Micarta or G-10 and thinner black Micarta/G-10 spacers. Think Bumble-Bee.
The blade could be many things, but S35VN would do well for a stainless steel. The nitrogen steels would be great,too, but may be more than needed.

Many people talk about edge retention on a survival/dive/rescue knife. It may never be used, and if it is, the use will be short duration. Edge retention may be on the list of attributes desired, but it is way down that list.
Light weight and corrosion resistance are much more important.

I would suggest some of David Boye's dendritic cobalt, or just plain Ti6Al4V. Both are very corrosion resistant. The titanium has the advantage of lighter in weight.The Cobalt will take a good edge.

Send me a PM or email, Carl. I may have nearly everything you need in the cabinets.
 
since the boy will works for the navy, he orobablly have to constantly run into some sort of boat, ship or maybe submarine. he might need his tool to be non magnetic as well.
 
Carl_First_Timer said:
How well is the N680 and Vanax edge holding ability? Is one better than the other in edge holding while being worse in corrosion resistance, and vice versa?
Click to expand...
N680 and Vanax are both the same for corrosion resistance. Vanax has better edge holding. The downside of Vanax is the price. Jim Ankerson has done extensive edge holding testing in this thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/793481

Some people in this forum have written nitrogen stainless steels are hype and regular stainless steels work just as well. They are wrong. The nitrogen stainless steel corrosion resistance is significantly better than stainless steels like 440C or S35VN. Comparing the corrosion resistance of regular stainless steels to nitrogen stainless is like comparing 440C to A2 i.e., there is no comparison.

I would use florescent colors for the knife handle. Color visibility changes radically underwater. For example, red appears black at about 20 feet in depth. Florescent orange, green and yellow are visiable much deeper.
 
Would placing some amount of glow in the dark handle material/paint help? Maybe some kind of tritium too...just an outside observation.
 
bladsmth said:
Many people talk about edge retention on a survival/dive/rescue knife. It may never be used, and if it is, the use will be short duration. Edge retention may be on the list of attributes desired, but it is way down that list.
Light weight and corrosion resistance are much more important.
Click to expand...

I agree. I dive and I use my dive knife for emergencies. I haven't had any emergencies in the last ten years of use. My titanium blade is as sharp and rust free as when I first bought it with almost no maintenance.

Spyderco uses H1 and Benchmade uses N680 on their dive knives. Either Stacy's titanium or Chuck's N680 would be at the top of my list.
 
i just did a search on stainless steel. there is this cronidur 30. lower c higher N. PESR steel.

C:0.3% N:0.38% Si:0.55% Cr:15.2% Mo:1.02%

tough i personally have not used it yet. but from the date reported on the research papper, it has the maxium carbide size no more than 10μm. that is really outstanding. the hardness stays above 58hrc, while the fracture toughness >=20. and it has supperior corrosion resistance than 440c.

you might as well take this steel as your consideration.
 
hammerfall said:
i just did a search on stainless steel. there is this cronidur 30. lower c higher N. PESR steel.

C:0.3% N:0.38% Si:0.55% Cr:15.2% Mo:1.02%
Click to expand...
We've been trying to buy Cronidur 30 for about two years. It was developed as a nitrogen stainless bearing grade steel to replace 52100. One of the papers I read said many of the bearing on the space shuttle had been replaced with this steel.

The problem is availability. We have not found anyone who will ship whole sheets. I remember the billet price for .120" x 12" x 1.5" was about $150.
 
Interesting thread. I'm not a knifemaker but I was a Coast Guard Rescue Swimmer. We were issued multiple knives for use, standard U.S. Divers knife with leg sheath, Benchmade AFO for our harness along with a j-hook and a Spyderco Rescue Clip-it for our flight suit.

As stated one of the issues was rust but part of our PM (preventive maintenance) was a fresh water rinse of our gear and that helped with the rust issue. The knife was one of the least used piece of gear but like anything, better to have and not need then need and not have. We were trained only to cut lines as a last resort, the reason being, one cut line is now two lines and so on. This has to do with parachute disentanglement in the water, something he will become very familiar with :D.
If I may make some suggestions, they would be to keep the weight down, mid-length blade with a blunted tip. If you could incorporate a j-hook for cutting shroud lines that would be great too.
I know this wasn't very helpful but please wish him luck.
Our motto is "So others may live" in case you want to incorporate that somehow.

Dan
Here is my grad photo from 20 years ago down in Pensacola, FL
17833_1248061415499_1648355402_641509_3291707_n.jpg
 
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