DLC Coating Temp and (old?) INFI's HT?

[Thejax]

Hello all,

I really want a DLC coat for one of my blades; but apparently the temp at which DLC is applied is around 500*F...

So I'm wondering if such high temp can affect the heat treat of INFI negatively; especially INFI made in 2006?

Any official answers would be really appreciated. Thank you great people!

 

[resinguy]

For an Official answer you should call the Shop.

My addled brain seems to recall that Jerry posted that up to 900F was still safe. Also, thought that there was a member (maybe Jaxx?) that had DLC done. Good luck.

 

[David Brown]

Hello all,

I really want a DLC coat for one of my blades; but apparently the temp at which DLC is applied is around 500*F...

So I'm wondering if such high temp can affect the heat treat of INFI negatively; especially INFI made in 2006?

Any official answers would be really appreciated. Thank you great people!

Ask Busse.

In my opinion, it may not effect the heat treat but it would void the warranty as who knows what the DLC coater will do, it would be out of Busse's hand then.

 

[Jaxx]

Hello all,

I really want a DLC coat for one of my blades; but apparently the temp at which DLC is applied is around 500*F...

So I'm wondering if such high temp can affect the heat treat of INFI negatively; especially INFI made in 2006?

Any official answers would be really appreciated. Thank you great people!

Diamond Black DLC by IonBond is what I had applied to a FBM Proto by IonBond's customs guy in an 18 hour process, max temp 425°F. I called Jerry first, he assured me that would not affect the HT. I did have to get the scales removed first, & then reattached after. IonBond will not do that part. You will also have to resharpen the blade, as the entire knife gets covered. This is how it looked afterwards.

 

[Thejax]

Diamond Black DLC by IonBond is what I had applied to a FBM Proto by IonBond's customs guy in an 18 hour process, max temp 425°F. I called Jerry first, he assured me that would not affect the HT. I did have to get the scales removed first, & then reattached after. IonBond will not do that part. You will also have to resharpen the blade, as the entire knife gets covered. This is how it looked afterwards.View attachment 1744233

That’s very nice, thank you! That’s exactly what I’m planning to have the knife done. I was planning for Josh at Rekknives to do the DLC.

Now the other question is that since there are different versions of INFI, I don’t know if the old INFI will react differently to the process compared to new INFI. And my knife is pretty old (2006), so I’m assuming it’s an older INFI version? May I ask if your FBM is made at around that same year?

edit:words

 

[Thejax]

And Garth himself has confirmed that DLC is not recommended due to high temp. Thanks all for your input

 

[Jerry Busse]

425 will not affect INFI but 500 will.

Use Jaxx's guy!

Let's Drink!

Jerry

.

 

[Thejax]

Thank you!... And this is the definite answer to mine questions. Please have a good one all

 

[Jaxx]

425 will not affect INFI but 500 will.

Use Jaxx's guy!

Let's Drink!

Jerry

.

I had this done in '08 or '09, so def ask questions if you call them about getting a knife treated.
For those interested, it's the IonBond plant in Greensboro N.C. At the time, their in-house gunsmith & custom jobs guy was Ryan Flynn. The DLC is "Diamond Black". Again, it's an 18 hour process, with a max temp of 425°F. Other knifemakers have used this finish from IonBond, including Ken Onion. Spartan Blades gets their blades DLC'd by IonBond, but not sure which DLC's used. In short, IonBond does good work.
Ryan did a great job on the FBM Proto

 

[RobStanley]

I'm a bit of a dunce - what is a DLC coating?

 

[cutchu]

You should also be specific about what type finish you want. By that I mean like a smooth polished type of surface (think blueing on Colt Pythons, 1911s, etc). So, to get that type of result, the blade has to be polished before DLC coating.

Years ago, I bought a new from builder 1911, with DLC coating that was "ashy" looking. I knew before I bought it, so I was not expecting anything else.

 

[dogboye]

I'm a bit of a dunce - what is a DLC coating?

DLC = Diamond-Like Carbon coating. IIRC, it is a surface coating that approaches the hardness of a diamond, thus "Diamond-Like." I have a couple of blades around here that have that type of coating. It seems to work well, but it will scratch. Dirt has inclusions in it, apparently, that are as hard as a diamond, so it will scratch this coating. At least that has been my experience. But as a coating, its hardness is da**ed impressive.

ETA to correct my acronym and add "carbon."
ETA again to add IonBond DLC

 

[on_the_edge]

Way of Knife does DLC work in the 325-400 degree range. Josh at Razoe Edge Knives (REK) also does DLC work.

 

[Jaxx]

You should also be specific about what type finish you want. By that I mean like a smooth polished type of surface (think blueing on Colt Pythons, 1911s, etc). So, to get that type of result, the blade has to be polished before DLC coating.

Years ago, I bought a new from builder 1911, with DLC coating that was "ashy" looking. I knew before I bought it, so I was not expecting anything else.

Good point.
This Busse is factory satin finished, and did go through an extensive cleaning as part of the process. Here's a pic of the same FBM Proto afterwards- outside pic. Note that it looks like the edge is devoid of DLC, however it's a reflection of sunlight. The whole knife gets done- edge, handle (w/o slabs), everything

 

[Nemo1775]

Good point.
This Busse is factory satin finished, and did go through an extensive cleaning as part of the process. Here's a pic of the same FBM Proto afterwards- outside pic. Note that it looks like the edge is devoid of DLC, however it's a reflection of sunlight. The whole knife gets done- edge, handle (w/o slabs), everything
View attachment 1744987

Does treating the edge effect ability to sharpen the knife?

 

[Father & Son Traditional Sharpening]

Diamond Black DLC by IonBond is what I had applied to a FBM Proto by IonBond's customs guy in an 18 hour process, max temp 425°F. I called Jerry first, he assured me that would not affect the HT. I did have to get the scales removed first, & then reattached after. IonBond will not do that part. You will also have to resharpen the blade, as the entire knife gets covered. This is how it looked afterwards.View attachment 1744233

Looks awesome, remember seeing this years ago and not really getting the 'why' behind this idea.... but I think I get it now.... WHY NOT, right!?!?!?

Who put the handle tubes back on for you? Does Busse do this if you ever need to drill out the tubes for refinishing work?

 

[Jaxx]

Does treating the edge effect ability to sharpen the knife?

Beats me. I had the pleasure of not finding out. Did this as a special request for a buyer. He got to resharpen it lol

Looks awesome, remember seeing this years ago and not really getting the 'why' behind this idea.... but I think I get it now.... WHY NOT, right!?!?!?

Who put the handle tubes back on for you? Does Busse do this if you ever need to drill out the tubes for refinishing work?

I asked Ban Tang to help me with the handle. He used to hang out here before making his own knives.

 

[tiguy7]

DLC = Diamond-Like Carbon coating. IIRC, it is a surface coating that approaches the hardness of a diamond, thus "Diamond-Like." I have a couple of blades around here that have that type of coating. It seems to work well, but it will scratch. Dirt has inclusions in it, apparently, that are as hard as a diamond, so it will scratch this coating. At least that has been my experience. But as a coating, its hardness is da**ed impressive.

ETA to correct my acronym and add "carbon."
ETA again to add IonBond DLC

DLC is short for TDLC (Tungsten Diamond Like Carbon). It’s basically PVD (Physical Vapor Deposition) applied Tungsten Carbide which has an HRC (Hardness Rockwell C scale) of around 72. The coating is not very thick, but grinding it off when sharpening works better with Silicon Carbide than Aluminum Oxide. 72 is harder than most blades but softer than Vanadium Carbide at 82 HRC or Titanium Aluminum Nitride at 92 HRC and much softer than Diamonds. Carborundum (SiC) is used to sharpen WC (Tungsten Carbide) tool bits because Corundum (Aluminum Oxide) is too slow.

 

[dogboye]

DLC is short for TDLC (Tungsten Diamond Like Carbon). It’s basically PVD (Physical Vapor Deposition) applied Tungsten Carbide which has an HRC (Hardness Rockwell C scale) of around 72. The coating is not very thick, but grinding it off when sharpening works better with Silicon Carbide than Aluminum Oxide. 72 is harder than most blades but softer than Vanadium Carbide at 82 HRC or Titanium Aluminum Nitride at 92 HRC and much softer than Diamonds. Carborundum (SiC) is used to sharpen WC (Tungsten Carbide) tool bits because Corundum (Aluminum Oxide) is too slow.

Awesome detailed information! Thanks!

 

[Ironic]

Could we get a little clarification on what seems to be a contradiction between the following quotes, one from this thread (above) and one from March, 2000? Has the INFI alloy changed that much, or the Busse heat treat, or does it have to do with the specific scenario of applying coatings?

Here are the statements I’m wondering about:

From above:

425 will not affect INFI but 500 will.
.

From March 6, 2000:

…As for INFI and temperature extremes, it is amazing. INFI is tempered at nearly 950 degrees. It does not begin to lose any significant hardness until it is held above 1050 degrees for a considerable amount of time. I have to believe that it would need to be extremely mishandled in order to do any noticeable damage.

Most of the simpler high carbon steels (of which INFI is NOT a member) can be drawn down in temper in a matter of seconds if the temperature hits above 500 - 800 degrees.