DMT stones Water or no water?

MTHall720

MTHall720

Joined
Sep 21, 2010
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Finally got my DMT benchstones. I have heard some people say use water when sharpening and others say so not use any water except for when you clean the stones. What do you do?
 
Using water will help keep the stone from clogging up, especially the finer stones. It is ok either way. Most I have seen on video's have used water while sharpening.

Blessings,

Omar
 
Any of these will work (I've tried each):

  • water (simplest). Dries very quickly, epecially in more arid areas, so you have to keep re-wetting the hone.
  • water + dish detergent (Dawn, Palmolive, etc.). Seems to keep the hone 'wet' longer; might also enhance feedback. Cleanup almost takes care of itself, for obvious reasons. :D
  • mineral oil (great feedback, and stays wet longer still than the previous examples)

I've even used some mineral oil-based hand lotion on my DMT hones. Feedback just like mineral oil, and the slightly more viscous lotion doesn't drip all over the place either, but instead usually clings to the edges of the hone.

Either the mineral oil or the lotion will clean up easily in warm/hot water with dish detergent. In fact, the lotion likely cleans up a little easier (lighter content of mineral oil).


David
 
Thanks to everyone! I am guessing that for clean-up or to unclog the pores, I can used Barkeepers Friend (oxalic acid) or should I just scrub with dishwashing liquid?
 
I never use water when sharpening with DMT stones.

I clean them off by wiping them with a paper towel or napkin most of the time.

Once in a while they will get dirty enough that using hot, soapy water and scrubbing them with a nylon brush is used.
 
MTHall720 said:
Thanks to everyone! I am guessing that for clean-up or to unclog the pores, I can used Barkeepers Friend (oxalic acid) or should I just scrub with dishwashing liquid?
Click to expand...

The only reason I'd see, for using BKF on diamond hones, is if there's any visible rust (most likely embedded steel swarf). BKF works well with that; otherwise, they usually clean up very easily with just dishwashing liquid & water (this is what I do about 99% of the time). Diamond hones are real easy to clean up, especially if you do it after each session. An old toothbrush is handy for this task, and it only takes a couple minutes. Hones used wet (water, water + dish liquid, oil, etc) will clean up more easily, because swarf never gets much opportunity to embed in them. A hone used dry, and neglected for a while, may need more scrubbing.

If you do use BKF, do so on a WET hone (keeps the oxalic acid from getting too aggressive), and rinse it very thoroughly afterward. Don't let it sit on the hone too long, maybe not more than a minute or two.


David
 
Strangely, I found the Coarse (blue labelled) when used gets very dark, and cleaning up using soap + water + nylon toothbrush, doesn't bring back the silverish color. It stays dark.
The F and EF doesn't get this dark. Anyone has idea? It's used mostly for 8Cr13MoV.
 
Chris "Anagarika";12393898 said:
Strangely, I found the Coarse (blue labelled) when used gets very dark, and cleaning up using soap + water + nylon toothbrush, doesn't bring back the silverish color. It stays dark.
The F and EF doesn't get this dark. Anyone has idea? It's used mostly for 8Cr13MoV.
Click to expand...

I think I've noticed something like that too. I wonder if the 'dark' appearance has more to do with a shadow effect of the larger particles on the surface, as opposed to actually being darker in color. A coarser surface finish diffuses the light more than a finer surface finish, which directly reflects more light. Conversely, the EF and EEF seem to 'shimmer' more brightly than the Fine and lower grits. Sort of congruous with how a surface becomes more 'shiny' as the surface irregularities are reduced during polishing, leaving a smoother, flatter and more reflective surface. Good example is comparing satin-finished 440A (dingy grayish) with a highly-polished version of the same steel, or better yet, comparing a bead-blast finish with highly-polished finish on the same steel.

(All the above is PURELY SPECULATIVE, but it's what I tend to think may be going on. :D )

Maybe it might also have something to do with coarser/larger particles more easily coming dislodged from the nickel substrate during use, leaving the large(ish) and darker 'holes' in the nickel behind. Don't know, but maybe. I've heard the coarser diamond hones are somewhat more vulnerable to grit being knocked loose, if excessive pressure is applied.

I have noticed that coarser diamond hones really seem to clog more easily too, if used dry. If so, and if not all of the swarf is cleaned out of them, I could also see that reducing the 'shine' from the hone's surface. That might be an opportunity to use some of the BKF to clean it. If swarf is embedded, that stuff will get down in there and dissolve it.


David
 
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Obsessed with Edges said:
I have noticed that coarser diamond hones really seem to clog more easily too, if used dry. If so, and if not all of the swarf is cleaned out of them, I could also see that reducing the 'shine' from the hone's surface. That might be an opportunity to use some of the BKF to clean it. If swarf is embedded, that stuff will get down in there and dissolve it.
David
Click to expand...
:thumbup: this. I bkf or sometime spit (:p) to remove swarf plaque.
 
You can use an eraser to clean them dry. Like a pencil eraser or the ones for cleaning grinding belts
 
David hit on an important thing to remember, especially if used dry, too much pressure will ruin the coarse stone by removing the diamonds from the substrate.I ruined 2 coarse and 1 medium DMT stones by using them dry and bearing down too hard.I use hot water and comet cleanser and a toothbrush to clean the stones.
 
I've never found water to do anything with the coarse stones. It will help keep the dust controlled with the XXC stone but as far as clogging goes its simply not going to happen in one sitting. The fine stones on the other hand need to be cleaned much more often as the metal swarf will stick to the surface but again I have never seen a clogging issue that has seriously slowed down the operation of the stone.

Overall I think all it does is make a bigger mess.

As for cleaning, on the fine stones again, BKF should be used occasionally as the metal swarf will imbed in the surface and normal cleaning methods don't really work to get it out.
 
I use my diamond stones dry. Some are DMT, some aren't.
I clean under running water, sometimes use detergent, & then let it dry.
I don't worry about rust, it won't affect the diamonds or matrix. The small amount of rust I've found dissapears 3 seconds after I start sharpening again.

I would never clean with acid. My understanding is the matrix the diamonds are embedded in is metalic, & I won't risk damaging with acid. It has never failed to come clean by a rinse & a rub under a tap.
 
David,

Thanks for some theory shared. The darker areas are at where sharpening happened (not all surface), those at the short side still shines. I guess it's either: metal embeddeed (cannot clean using toothbrush + liquid soap), or I dislodged the diamonds. The last is not likely, as I've been careful in using them, especially after reading tips here that for diamond sharpener, lighter pressure is recommended.

Will report back if I see any changes.
 
I use them with water when I have some mayor work to do, just because otherwise I end with steel dust everywhere. Water keeps the dust flosting and controlled, you can wipe it really clean.
when it's only a touch up normally dry will do it.
 
DMT suggests using only water as a lubricant. After use, rinse the stones with water and dry.

For heavier cleaning, use an abrasive kitchen cleanser (non-petroleum based) and a scrub brush.


"While we recommend you use DMT® products dry or with water only, it is acceptable to use a variety of lubricants when sharpening with DMT® products. Mineral oil, mineral spirits, kerosene, WD40 can all be used without harming your DMT® sharpener. We do not recommend storing your DMT® sharpener in kerosene. DMT® recommends that you always wipe your Diamond and Unbreakable Ceramic Sharpeners clean and store dry after use.

When you first use your DMT® sharpener, the diamond surface will seem aggressive in nature; the diamond sharpener will smooth after initial sharpening with no impact to long term performance. Your first few sharpenings are the break-in period. To maintain your sharpener, you should clean after each use with water and wipe dry. After several sharpenings, use a mild kitchen abrasive cleanser and a nylon scrub brush (an old toothbrush works well too). Comet, Ajax, and Zud work well. Make sure the sharpener is dry before putting it away

Put away your benchstones dry and store in a dry area. Use leafing (paper towels, cloth, plastic storage bag) in between your bench stones to prevent abrasive sides from rubbing."

http://www.dmtsharp.com/resources/dmt-faq/
 
Chris "Anagarika";12396038 said:
David,

Thanks for some theory shared. The darker areas are at where sharpening happened (not all surface), those at the short side still shines. I guess it's either: metal embeddeed (cannot clean using toothbrush + liquid soap), or I dislodged the diamonds. The last is not likely, as I've been careful in using them, especially after reading tips here that for diamond sharpener, lighter pressure is recommended.

Will report back if I see any changes.
Click to expand...

The more I think about it, the more I believe at least some of the darkening may be removal of diamond. My basis for reference is a DMT C/F Dia-Fold I used for flattening a ceramic hone. It did scrub a lot of diamond off, and the sparse areas are indeed darker and more easily noticed. It looks much worse than it performs though, as it will still do a nice job in touching up most of my blades. :)

In fact, I used this same hone the other day, to lightly burnish some bumps off of a seldom-used Spyderco Fine bench hone. The areas of the hone that had more diamond removed previously (most at/near the edges), also had a tendency to leave some of the nickel substrate on the ceramic (dark streaks).


David
 
I am certain diamonds get removed, & this is what happens in the break in period. It is the diamonds firmly embedded in the matrix that do the long term sharpening, not the diamonds lightly stuck on the surface.
The superficial diamonds need to be worn off, because they do a horrible job on the blade anyway.
 
I tried using water out of curiosity on my Diasharp c/ec. I stopped after not seeing any real difference or feeling any real benefit.
 
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