DMT vs Shapton Glass --- what would be your choice?

J

JohnIrish

Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
34
Though the years I have tried different methods of sharpening .. usually with poor results. Like most people, I have been slowly trying different methods to improve my sharpening skills.

I finally ended up with the Worksharp and a belt grinder (using different grits). I get very good results with both of those devices and in the process learned about the burr etc.

I have started hand sharpening some kitchen knives using the Norton course and fine stone with pretty good results. I have been enjoying the hand sharpening. My hand sharping is improved so I would like to get some very good stones to make my ability and not the stones the limiting factor. I would transition to just using the stones for sharpening.

I also have some more difficult steels to sharpen (D2, Elmax, M390, S110v, etc) so I would like a stone that would work with my normal kitchen knives and also these steels. Because of that, I have been reading and think the DMT or the Shapton Glass may work. I would like to get "push" cutting results.

I have never had a nice polished edge but I am more interested in a sharp knife then the looks of the blade. However, a polished edge would also be a plus. My research (searching posts) has lead me to DMT or Shapton Glass stones as a possible solution.

The DMT stones seem attractive since they can handle any steel.. it sounds like the major disadvantage would be the scratch patterns and fininishing the edge to a polished look. Many people seem to use a different stone of some kind to polish the edge.

The Shapton stones have the polished edge but I am not sure if they work well with the more difficult steels.

What are your thoughts or these stones or would you recommend something else?

Could you recommend the grits in each to get me to a nice edge? I would like to make the correct purchase.

Thanks!
 
A good start would be,

Atoms 140
Shapton Glass 500
Shapton Glass 2000

Now here's where it can get confusing or expensive and sometimes both. Shapton typically recommends the 16k to follow most every stone, even the 2k which is a huge jump, but it's not intended to polish the edge just clean it up and deburr it. Think of it more like a very expensive strop that is far more consistent than a strop.

To the 500 and 2k, I would add the 4k or 6k depending on how far you wanted to progress. With the Shapton Glass you get a lot of polish even in lower grits so 4k and 6k will be quite polished. 8k plus would be a bit extreme, that's straight razor and sushi knife territory. Just stopping at the 2k would yield a great edge on most everything and could be quickly polished up by a strop loaded with 1 micron diamond if needed. Lots of options.
 
I like the DMT coarse, then extra fine. If more polish is required the Spycerco Ceramic UF. Strop after.
 
Jason has one of the biggest collections of sharpening stones I've heard of here, including (I think) every grade of DMT stone and a HUGE selection of waterstones. He's got a lot of experience and SKILL too. Just in case you didn't know.

That said, for your needs with some of the more exotic steels, I don't know if Shapton Glass will cut those steels with any kind of efficiency. Maybe Jason or someone else can address what kind of cutting action you can expect with a Shapton glass on say S110V.

If you decide to go the DMT route, you're not going to get shiny polished edges until you step up near the 3 to 4 micron mark. That means the EEF or the MEF plate. The EF plates, while they won't give you a shiny edge, will give you a very good utility finish that's pretty smooth, but also still has some bite to it. My progression with DMT is XXC (for repair and heavy grinding), C , and then EF.

Good luck to you.

Brian.
 
I have a S110V strider on the bench, I'll report back in a little bit. I know it will handle S30V as well as diamond stones but there is a difference between 4% and 9% vanadium.

The Shapton are like Spyderco ceramics but with the qualities of a waterstone, mainly the ability for the surface to wear and constantly expose fresh abrasive.
 
Thanks for all the responses....

After further research, the Shapton stones seem like the way to go.

Atoma 140
Shapton Glass 500
Shapton Glass 2000

I guess the atoma 140 can be used as a very course stone for sharpening and lapping the other stones.

Jason, Are you agreeing with Shapton and recommending the 16k? ... I think the 16k is close to the price of two lower grit stones. It does seem confusing to add the 16k.

If I get more stones, does the 4000 & 6000 make sense or would you get the 4000 & 8000. Or maybe get the 4000 & 16k?

I have never stropped with 1 micron diamond but I would also be willing to try that.

My first thought would be to add the 4000 & possibly the 16k .

Thanks!
 
For a single stone to follow the 2k I would go 6k, if you wanted a progression to the perfect mirror polish then the 4k, 8k, and 16k would be best. I'm doing the 6k and 16k myself, I only occasionally need something as fine as the 6k and the 16k will assist my 2k edges in taking off those pesky burrs.

The Shapton stones are a system and they recommend sets that yield the most useful cutting edges. I would recommend you watch some of these videos, it will help to understand how they all work together.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk36FCRtxWdPKJvxFPp2aAQ?app=desktop&persist_app=1
 
Thanks for all the help... I went with:

Atoma 140
Shapton Glass 500
Shapton Glass 2000
Shapton Glass 6000
Shapton Glass 16k

Price wise... It was a difficult decision. The 500-2000-16k kit is the same price as the 500-1000-4000-8000 kit. ( about $300)

Adding the recommended 6000 was not that much more money and it felt like a good idea for me to fill in the progression.

Thanks for the recommendations.... My stones have been shipped and I am excited to try them out!
 
This thread seems to be done but I have one more question. It seems that the Spyderco UF ceramic is about 3 micron grit size, so likely Shapton Glass 4-6k? What is the advantage of a waterstone other than new abrasives every time which is similar to cleaning the Spyderco UF I guess?

Thanks !
 
Not really, as the Spyderco ceramic loads it slows down and does more burnishing than cutting. The waterstones keep their same speed and add to it by exposing new abrasive and using released abrasive in the slurry. It is by far some of the most impressive stones of any kind I have ever used.

I find it much easier to lap a waterstone than to clean a Spyderco ceramic. I also don't need to lap/clean my SG 3 times during one knife sharpening. I was pulling out the barkeepersfriend too much when I had my Spyderco ceramics, I was also having chipping issues on hard steels caused by the UF ceramic, this is not something you will find with any waterstone. Smoother and more consistent scratch patterns are an added bonus of the SG too.

Then there's the factor of grit selection, the Shapton's have a full spectrum range whereas the Spyderco's are medium-fine to very fine. The Spyderco ceramics are excellent stones and I would fully endorse the UF ceramic in combo with some DMT Plates. The reason I recommend the Shaptons over them is because of the grit range, overall usefulness, and they are faster. Even comparing Damond plates is tough because only very coarse plates like the Atoma 140 take a slight advantage in speed over the SG stones.
 
You compared the Glass Stones to Spyderco, which was a surprise for me. I wonder if a harder waterstone would give me better results?

I struggle with waterstones for some reason. I tend to gouge them some and have gotten inconsistent results. Sometimes I get really nice sharp results. Other times the edges are very disappointing. I'm certain my technique is to blame; that's for sure. But the question for me is, will a harder waterstone, like a Glass Stone, give me better results without me spending loads of time refining my technique?

For the record, I have the old "recommended set" of Nubatamas: Bamboo 150, Ume 1k (regular hardness), and Bamboo 5k. I've gouged the 5k the most, and the 1k just a few times. I don't think it's possible to gouge the 150! I've had very good results with the 150, though it honestly feels slow compared to a DMT XXC.

So back to the question: Would a set of say 1k and 4k glass stones give me better results than the Nubatamas based on what I've said?

Thanks for any help,

Brian.
 
Jason B. said:
Harder stones are easier to sharpen on so I would say, Yes.
Click to expand...

I was afraid of that! :) I really shouldn't be spending any money on new stones right now but in the interest of future stone acquisition....

What Glass Stone would be good in sequence after a Nubatama Bamboo 150? 500? 1000? ...and what stone after that?

I could see GS 500, then 2000. Or I could maybe see GS 1000 then 4000. What do you think?

Brian.
 
I recommend what Shapton recommends, 500 and 2k. Two most useful stones you can have.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top