Do I need the same brand whetstone? Can I use honing steel? (BEGINNER)

[Frosh]

Hello,

First off, I am sorry if this is a stupid question, but I have always been interested in knives but only recently come into money to get nice ones. (University for 5 years, will start making money this summer.)

Anyway, I've started off with a 4 set of Porsche F.A Chroma 301 knives (image below) and of course I will want to take care of them.

Now, I might have made a mistake right off the bat, I ordered a 1000/3000 whetstone (image below) without thinking wether or not the brand matters.

Chroma has their own brand of whetstone and of course says it's the only kind that works but what I am wondering is, is it true? Will the whetstone I've ordered not work? Also, what should I use to even out the stone?

And one last question; I often see online that you shouldn't use a honing steel on japanese knives, is this true or do I need to use a special kind? (Since there are ceramic, steel and a myriad other versions of honing steels.) I mean, using a whetstone every week will grind both the stone and knives down rather quickly, won't it?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, I hope someone can take the time.

Thanks in advance,
Frosh

 

[OldNavy]

Do Not Steel J. Blades. If you think they're beginning to need attention, do a light touch up with a stone in the 5k range.

The Suehiro Rika 5 K is great for this. If you want to push the edge a bit finer get a Kitayama
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kitayama8000.html

The Naniwa Snow White { Junpaku } is another great finishing stone. I run it and the Kit together, alternate which one goes
first until you decide on what result you prefer.

The Stone you have should be fine, but most likely overpriced. Branded items are usually crazy expensive.

Very important, find out what type of binding medium is used in your stones. Some need long soaking, some will soften
if left too long. IE: Chosera's are not soakers.

Good site for info.
http://www.fine-tools.com/japwas.html

 

[OldNavy]

Follow up on the 301 steel.
http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/301.shtml

Basically, these knives will work, but you can get better steel for the same price or cheaper.

This is a very good entry level Chef's knife.
http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/gyuto/products/gesshin-uraku-240mm-white-2-kurouchi-wa-gyuto

Jon, The owner is THE Knife Guy on the West Coast.

Super good vid on Steel basics.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkLsLst8qMc

 

[fsatsil]

Follow up on the 301 steel.
http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/301.shtml

That's the chart for AISI 301 steel which is not the same as the steel used in these knives. The steel they are made from is proprietary and supposedly similar to Global's Cromova18.

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/type_301.shtml

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

The zknives link from fsatsil ( :thumbup: ) indicates the 'Chroma Type 301' steel is similar in composition to AUS-6M. If so, it's not likely different from something like 420HC (~ 0.50% carbon, 13-14% chromium), and likely could be sharpened on most anything. Kitchen knives from Wusthof and Victorinox also use stainless steels of similar makeup. Doubtful it's very hard or prone to chipping, as the makeup of it likely precludes it getting very hard (< 60 HRC; most such blades will be mid-high 50s HRC). Might avoid steeling it for now, if the grind is specialized or extremely thin at the edge (might be on a Japanese knife). If you DO choose to steel it, I'd not use anything other than a smooth (polished) steel at a very light touch; avoid the grooved ones, which might wreck a very thin edge. That said, I'd still likely avoid steeling at all, for now.

The stone 'recommended' by the manufacturer may leave something close to the factory finish on the bevels; I'd think that's likely the only reason they'd recommend it (aside from the likelihood they're making good $$ on it ). As for abrasive type or some other special quality, nothing special should be needed for the steel used in the blades.


David

 

[fsatsil]

You don't need to use Chroma brand stones the stone you purchased should be fine to start with, remember that 90% of sharpening is your technique so don't worry to much about buying expensive stones right now. For flattening your stone you have a few options, you can purchase a diamond lapping plate(expensive), a flattening stone like the ones Norton or Naniwa make(less expensive), or you can get a sheet of glass or granite tile and some silicon carbide lapping grit(cheap).

 

[Frosh]

Do Not Steel J. Blades. If you think they're beginning to need attention, do a light touch up with a stone in the 5k range.

The Suehiro Rika 5 K is great for this. If you want to push the edge a bit finer get a Kitayama
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kitayama8000.html

The Naniwa Snow White { Junpaku } is another great finishing stone. I run it and the Kit together, alternate which one goes
first until you decide on what result you prefer.

The Stone you have should be fine, but most likely overpriced. Branded items are usually crazy expensive.

Very important, find out what type of binding medium is used in your stones. Some need long soaking, some will soften
if left too long. IE: Chosera's are not soakers.

Good site for info.
http://www.fine-tools.com/japwas.html

Alright, well, the stone I already ordered was a combo stone and cost only 60 bucks so it was pretty cheap, but if it should work I'll be OK with it for now! The site says sharpening instructions are included (for soaking etc). Thanks!

The zknives link from fsatsil ( :thumbup: ) indicates the 'Chroma Type 301' steel is similar in composition to AUS-6M. If so, it's not likely different from something like 420HC (~ 0.50% carbon, 13-14% chromium), and likely could be sharpened on most anything. Kitchen knives from Wusthof and Victorinox also use stainless steels of similar makeup. Doubtful it's very hard or prone to chipping, as the makeup of it likely precludes it getting very hard (< 60 HRC; most such blades will be mid-high 50s HRC). Might avoid steeling it for now, if the grind is specialized or extremely thin at the edge (might be on a Japanese knife). If you DO choose to steel it, I'd not use anything other than a smooth (polished) steel at a very light touch; avoid the grooved ones, which might wreck a very thin edge. That said, I'd still likely avoid steeling at all, for now.

The stone 'recommended' by the manufacturer may leave something close to the factory finish on the bevels; I'd think that's likely the only reason they'd recommend it (aside from the likelihood they're making good $$ on it ). As for abrasive type or some other special quality, nothing special should be needed for the steel used in the blades.

David

Alright, then I guess I will hold off on steeling them, thanks!

You don't need to use Chroma brand stones the stone you purchased should be fine to start with, remember that 90% of sharpening is your technique so don't worry to much about buying expensive stones right now. For flattening your stone you have a few options, you can purchase a diamond lapping plate(expensive), a flattening stone like the ones Norton or Naniwa make(less expensive), or you can get a sheet of glass or granite tile and some silicon carbide lapping grit(cheap).

Yeah I ordered a "sharpening fixture" that holds the knife at the proper angle, to practice with. The site says directly "For use with japanese knives such as Porsche" so it should work. Alright, I'll look into the flattening stones, thanks!

2 more questions if I may:

1. Can I use a normal plastic/rubber cutting board or do I need something special?

2. Is there a "normal time" to need to touch up the knives with the 3k stone or is this impossible to predict? Should I put them through "The tomato test" every week and see or is there any other guideline to follow?

 

[Noctis3880]

Alright, well, the stone I already ordered was a combo stone and cost only 60 bucks so it was pretty cheap, but if it should work I'll be OK with it for now! The site says sharpening instructions are included (for soaking etc). Thanks!

Is it made in China? If it's from China I would toss it out.:thumbdn:

1. Can I use a normal plastic/rubber cutting board or do I need something special?

End grain wood is the best, but I find bamboo is good too.

2. Is there a "normal time" to need to touch up the knives with the 3k stone or is this impossible to predict? Should I put them through "The tomato test" every week and see or is there any other guideline to follow?

If it doesn't feel sharp enough when cutting. You could also use a good flashlight to see if there are any chips or rolled sections.

 

[Novaculite]

Is it made in China? If it's from China I would toss it out.:thumbdn:

Are you serious? I have several very inexpensive Chinese stones which I use for the first sharpening stage to take off steel in a hurry. For fine-tuning the edge I usually use German or Belgian natural stones, but I do have several Chinese artificial and natural stones with very fine grit that will come close to a Belgian one. And by the way, there are literally millions of Chinese cooks in China who use Chinese stones day in and day out. Should they toss out all their equipment?