Does an ultralight rod "help" in any way or does it just add a challenge?

Macchina

Macchina

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Apr 7, 2006
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I spin fish for trout almost every weekend on a 7’ medium weight pole with a Shimano Symetre 2500. Pretty much as middle of the road gear as you can get.
I have a travel reel setup that includes a heavy weight 7.5” 4-piece rod and a 3000 series Shimano Reel (this is usually brought along if salmon fishing “might” happen on a trip).
I decided to get a lightweight setup for backpacking and went with a 7’ 4-piece Cabelas Fish Eagle 50 Ultralight (2-8lb line rating and 1/16-3/8 ounce lure rating) rod and a Cabelas Prodigy 30 Reel. The whole setup weighs under 2 pounds packed including tackle (less than a pound assembled with line). I got out this summer and tried out the rig for a few hours and fear I may have gone too ultralight….

I have the reel rigged with 8 pound Fireline (it was the lightest I could find) and was fishing in a medium sized river. In order to cast to the center of the river (probably 50 feet) I had to heave my heaviest lures (a size 2 Mepps) with all of my strength. My bead head Wooly Buggers and other weighted flies didn’t have a chance (I can usually cast these with a fluorocarbon leader at least 25 feet). The pole felt really floppy in my hand and I thought I would be getting extreme sensitivity but the mush seemed to take away all of that sensitivity.

Am I doing something wrong or was I wrong in my assumption that an ultralight rod would allow me to cast ultralight lures better than a mid-weight rod. Should I return the rod and get something stiffer? My main goal is to keep the lures light (1/4 ounce-ish) but be able to cast them far. The biggest fish I plan to use this rod for would be 16” Browns. I would like to stick with 6 pound braid, but could be talked into 4 pound if it really let me get the lures out there.
 
Casting for me is all about the tip. I generally choose a "light" action rod with a fast tip. This allows me to fling light lures a fair distance using mostly the tip. The No. 2 size is a tad large for trout unless it is big trout or salmon. Some of the Rapala type lures work in big water if it is not fast moving and especially for larger fish.

I did the ultra-light rod thing (4lb test line) for a while. But I totally dislike the wimpy feel of many of them. As mentioned, I like a stiff rod with a fast tip. I also prefer a solid cork handle where you can move the reel backward to balance the rod out a bit more rather than a fixed reel seat. That design is becoming hard to find. My favorite rod for years was a Cabelas Fish Eagle 5 or 5.5 ft light action rod. This is almost all trout fishing and I use almost exclusively 4 lb test line. Tried 2lb and I broke off so much, that it became a pain to use. You can break 2 lb test line just setting the hook sometimes and usually at the knot.

Using lighter line will lengthen your casting a bit when it is applicable. I just picked up some 4lb test Stren Magnathin to try out versus my standard "original" Stren in 4lb test. I know you get more stretch with mono, but I am so used to using it that the stretch is just natural and I have adjusted to it.

I have a 6 ft rod I use in big water that I sometimes fish for trout. The Hiwassee River in East TN is such a place and you seldom are working around branches and so forth on the shore. Big slippery rocks are the problem there as well as big changes in depth stepping off a rock. You get wet sometimes from either falling or stepping off into water that is "over the boots". Yes, I wade almost exclusively when it is possible.

I try to land my trout as quickly as possible so I am not tiring them out too much. I release them (catch & release).

My brother makes spinners. He generally uses a larger blade (#2 I believe) on a No. 1 sized spinner body. I could hook you up if you wanted to. He sells a lot of spinners at very reasonable prices to folks he knows. This allows the blade to easily spin and creates a lot of flash versus some of the tiny "0" sized spinners. Much better than rooster tails. Much! He catches literally thousands of trout a year. He's a trout fishing machine.
 
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I think you may have gotten the wrong action rod. UL is fine, but going for a fast action or spin/jig might be more of what you're needing. Parabolic action is the floppy or wet noodle type action that starts bending right at the grip. They are difficult to cast, mushy feeling when fighting fish and I find feel heavier in hand than they really are plus they tire my arm out a bit more.

Don't forget that spool size on your reel as well as guides have a large impact on casting ability. Larger spool diameter helps casting quite a bit.

The Berkeley Cherrywood rods are popular and good at casting light lures, and so are many of the rods made by B&M. Many of the walleye jigging rods are also available in UL with fast or XF actions.

Something else that might be contributing is the fact that it is a 4 piece rod. To compensate for the stiffness added by multiple sections they often make them a little lighter and flexy. I wouldn't give up on UL yet, but maybe finding the right rod is the course your on still.


-X
 
fast14riot said:
I think you may have gotten the wrong action rod. UL is fine, but going for a fast action or spin/jig might be more of what you're needing. Parabolic action is the floppy or wet noodle type action that starts bending right at the grip. They are difficult to cast, mushy feeling when fighting fish and I find feel heavier in hand than they really are plus they tire my arm out a bit more.

Don't forget that spool size on your reel as well as guides have a large impact on casting ability. Larger spool diameter helps casting quite a bit.

Something else that might be contributing is the fact that it is a 4 piece rod. To compensate for the stiffness added by multiple sections they often make them a little lighter and flexy. I wouldn't give up on UL yet, but maybe finding the right rod is the course your on still.
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Yes to the multiple piece rod affecting the action. The spool size is important, but you generally don't want a really big spinning reel on a light or ultra-light rod. It is just not balanced. The other side to that coin is there are some really tiny spinning reels that I see little point in owning or even trying out. My standard spinning reel is a Shimano Stradic 1000 and I have a Stradic 2500 that I use on the 6-foot rod. All of my spinning rods are one piece by the way and 6 feet is about the longest you can safely carry it in a car. Two piece is just fine in a longer rod.

And yes to the floppy noodle ultra-light rods that bend almost at the reel seat. I really dislike them. They also affect my casting ability and "aim". I have no desire to make a 12" trout feel like a 16" trout. I simply don't want to tire them out that much playing them endlessly unless I have to. When you get used to catching smaller trout, you tend to "miss" the larger fish by not setting the hook sufficiently or sometimes being very late to try to set the hook due to the way larger trout often hit a lure.
 
On spool size, I agree that any of the 1000 to 2500 size reels work well. Some of the tiny ones with spool size like a wine cork just aren't meant to be cast very far. Also, between brands some will have larger spools than others. I'd rather have a large diameter spool and capacity for 100 yards of 6# test than be able to put a mile of line on it.

22-rf, the type of handle you like is called a Tennessee handle. I have one on a vintage St. Croix glass light action custom and really like it.

I'm gearing up to build a custom UL rod right now actually. It will be just about exactly like you describe for your needs too. I'm building an all around UL, 6'6" one piece, fast action, spinning rod for trout/panfish. I already have the reel, Okuma SV-25.


-X
 
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I am not familiar with Okuma products, but looked them up. Looks high quality.

My latest reel that I got to try out is made by Diawa for Cabelas (Tournament ZX 1500). Looks like a very well made reel or I wouldn't have bought it. We'll see. Hard to beat my Stradic reels. They're just expensive for me. I do keep a couple spares available and usually have one in the truck with line just in case (rod too). They are known to be problematic if you dunk them often.
 
I use an ultra-light rod and reel for better control of very lightweight lures and lightweight line in extremely small bodies of water.

Casting 50' across a large river with a Mepps #2 and 8lb line... I'd be using my standard rod and reel.
Casting 20' with a Mepps #00 and 4lb line... that's when I'd use the ultralight rig.

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For an ultralight rig, I chose a 5' one-piece Bass Pro Microlite rod mated to a Shimano Spirex 1000, rear drag. Honestly, I wish they made a smaller size reel of that model.
For backpacking, I would have purchased a multi-section rod.
 
22-rimfire said:
I am not familiar with Okuma products, but looked them up. Looks high quality.

My latest reel that I got to try out is made by Diawa for Cabelas (Tournament ZX 1500). Looks like a very well made reel or I wouldn't have bought it. We'll see. Hard to beat my Stradic reels. They're just expensive for me. I do keep a couple spares available and usually have one in the truck with line just in case (rod too). They are known to be problematic if you dunk them often.
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I typed the wrong model name earlier, it's the SV-25. 8 ball bearings and 1 roller. The anti reverse is instant at any position. Picked it up on clearance for $39. I like Okuma products, good quality and good warranty. It's in the 1000 size category for most other makers.

I have a 5' South Bend two piece microlight that I can cast a 3/4" slip float with two BB split shot and a wax worm about 40-50 feet with a Zebco 33 and 6# P-Line XXS which admittedly aren't the best for casting distance. My vintage St. Croix custom with a Bronson Buddy 800 spinning reel casts a little better but it's 6' and light action, but solid glass. It does have a great action to it. Half way between medium and parabolic, but the bottom section is shorter than the top so it's stiffer in the butt than a true parabolic action.

The south bend I bought for $9.99 and has proven to be a good little rod. I've heard good things about the BPS Microlight like Bob has too. But those Berkeley Cherrywood rods are very popular for panfishing as is B&M. If I were going to go multi piece I would look at converting a 3 or 4 piece fly rod over to spinning. Something like a 7 foot. It will be long enough that you won't lose a ton of stiffness by having multiple sections but have a sensitive enough tip for proper tip action.


-X
 
My absolute favorite rod is a G Loomis one-piece 5' 4" Mag light extra fast action with the full length cork handle and no fixed reel seat. This is my dominant trout rod that I use and I will absolutely cry if I break it. I broke the first one (somehow?) and quickly replaced it with a duplicate. The money HURT. They don't make this one any more. I would buy a spare if they did. Most think it's a custom rod. I put little paint marks on the rod blank to quickly measure trout up to 20" and then release them. I actually have never caught a 20" trout in my life. I think 19.5" is my largest.

Bob W made good points and is typical of my approach and experience. However, the size of fish that I normally catch really don't require a "normal rod" unless a light action rod is normal. I just don't like most of the UL rods that are made now. It is certainly easier to cast light lures (< 1/4 oz) with a light or ultra light rig. I seldom use any 1/4 oz lures for trout, only bass.

Rods are kind of like knives. I have five unused rods leaning against the wall in my office (protected corner beside metal cabinet). I always cruise Bass Pro, Gander Mountain, Sportsman Warehouse, and now Cabelas retail stores (have two now within 50 miles) for the "perfect" rod.
 
Fast14riot, got a pacific islands trip coming up and was curious as I've seen some of your Abu's. Do you have any recomendations for a light-ish travel baitcaster reel for saltwater shore fishing?
 
I wouldn't consider 8 lb test and a Mepps #2 as ultralight. My go to ultralight setup consists of a G Loomis 4 1/2' GL2 rod and a Pflueger President 6920X spooled with Stren clear blue 4 lb line. I can comfortably fish lures from 1/32 - 1/8 oz and have caught many 5 lb plus trout over the years. I prefer a one piece rod but believe the pack rods made today are much better than the ones I fished 20 years ago. I enjoy fishing ultralight not because it is more sporting but because it's productive for the fishing I do.
 
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That Loomis 5'4" Mag Light is one of the best I've fished. Worth every penny. I've had the IMX version for almost twenty years. I have the IMX SR 6010-1 too, it's more of a true ultralight trout rod suitable for live bait or eggs. The crisp action of the SJR 641 makes it a better inline spinner rod, IMO. The SJR 720 is excellent as well but a lot faster action that handles large (5lbs+) trout very well.
 
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B34NS said:
Fast14riot, got a pacific islands trip coming up and was curious as I've seen some of your Abu's. Do you have any recomendations for a light-ish travel baitcaster reel for saltwater shore fishing?
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I don't have any Abu baitcasting reels, yet, it was Ebbtide that has them and knows about them. It was my thread though, the small/lightweight baitcasting reel thread.


-Xander
 
Abu rules :)

Back in the dark ages... the BC times... that's Before Computers...
Slow buggy whips were all we had.
And mono was it too...
You can make a decent cast with those old, slow rods.
The timing is totally different though.
Totally different.

One problem could be the size of the spool and the size of the first guide not matching up all that well.
Especially with braid. If the cone of line coming off the reel has to angle towards the rod too much, that slows the line down and bunches it up.
There are so many variables...

I've given up on UL... Don't fish rivers and the ponds I do fish are so weedy UL just isn't practical when it comes to getting the fish in.
IF I have to throw tiny lures I'd grab a fly rod over a UL spinner every time.
But that's me :) Good luck with your search for a good match for your reel.
 
I am by no means any kind of expert. Are you used to braided line? Before I used it a bunch I was really getting poor results, due to the drag of the line in the guides and the need for break in mostly. I moved to ice fishing braid because it is round and smooth and acts more like standard line. If you are used to braid please ignore me .
 
I didn't read every post so ill admit that but I have fished ulta lite for many years now and the length of the rod and how many sections it breaks into matters,your line matters, lure size and weight matters,your reel matters! Now thanks to these new super lines I'll call them you can scale your line up since you can get 8lb super lines as thin if not thinner than 4lb mono ect. Fishing ultra lite I can trigger a bite most any time of day and fish of all sizes are a fun fight. I'll take a pic or 2 in the next day or so and show you what I'm running but G Loomis is without question the best rod and I need to go pick up 1 or 2 again cuz I really liked my buddies.
 
Speaking of G Loomis, I picked up the (believe it or not) Ultra Light 6'6" spinning rod today (SR 781). I know I said, no ultra light. Has pretty good back bone and it's longer than I usually use, but I want to give it a whorl trout fishing in a river (open water mostly) or lake on my kayak. The only thing I don't like is the fixed reel seat, but I'll live. Probably going to put the new Cabelas Tournament ZX 1500 on it. New reel needs a new pole. If I don't like the reel, I'll put my Shimano Stradic 2500 on it.
 
I've been considering the Gary Loomis Signature series 6' UL spinning rod myself, but I think I'm going to stick with making myself a custom rod right now.

For UL rods, I think going with fast action is the best option for castability and sensitivity.


-X
 
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