Does anybody know about 5160 High Carbon Steel?

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Apr 15, 2001
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I don't know much about knives and I need to learn about 5160 High Carbon Steel. Is it a good quality steel for making knives compared to INFI, BG42, ATS34, etc.? I would appreciate it a lot if someone could give me some advise or tell me were I can get some information.

Fanis
 
5160 is good blade steel for stock removal or forging. Its probably the most forgiving forgable steel there is. Its durability and edge holging qualities depend entirly on the heat treat.
It however not in the same class as air hardening stainless steels such as BG-42 and ATS-34.
never the less, a propperly done blade of 5160 is a very good knife.
 
I know a lot of 5160,L-6, and 52100 lovers, who will disagree with Mr. Dockrell. Get all the opinions you can, from noted makers, who specialize in these types of steels. Then you can make a more educated dicision. Knowledge is POWER.
KEN (WWJD)
 
For a long blade, BG-42 and ATS-34 don't even begin to compare. 5160 is a fantastic sword steel, possibly the best there is, at reasonable prices anyway. I'm sure some mega alloy could be made that cost 60 dollars an inch or some craziness like that, but who knows.
 
Whooooaaa there boys!!!!!!
How come every time someone makes a generalization on these forums someone is willing to jump down there throat.
Dangus, Ragnoor take a pill and settle down. I simply stated that 5160 is not a air hardening stainless steel. I use 5160 and 52100 for my forged blades and damascus stock. They are both great steels but they do rust and are very dependant on the variation in heat treat as to the quality of the blade.
Without stating a specific use or blade size there are steels that are better and not as good as 5160.
Geeezzz give a guy a break !!!!:rolleyes:
 
I have ehard that 5160 is a great steel for large blades, as it is very tough. A 9" bowie of 5160 will chop and slice very well. Large stainless steel blades, generally speaking, wouldn't be as tough as a large 5160 blade. CPM3V by most reports is tougher, but is is a super alloy, super expensive steel liek those Dangus referred to.

You can make a knife that will do just great out of 5160. A large chopper is what it is best suited for, but you could make a small blade out of it just fine I'm sure. But, as Robert said, if you want edge holding or stain resistance, 5160 shouldn't be your first choice.

incidentally, I am a newbie maker, and I don't care really what I use! I have made all of my blades out of 440-C so far because I can get it readily and have it heat treated easily by a shop. I also have a bar of 5160 to play with in the near future. I have a D2 planer blade that L6STEEL sent to me to punish me. My point is that if you are a newbie like me, go ahead and use that steel, as it will make a fine knife. If you are making a very specific knife for a specific job, you should let us know what your criteria are so we can better help you.
 
i forged a camp knife from 5160. triple heat treated/tempered per Ed Caffrey's advice. took it out for a week camping. dang thing won't get dull. still pops hairs off my arm with ease. i can hammer it into mild steel with no damage to the edge. i luv 5160 ;)
 
it depends on the usage. BG-42, 154cm, ATS-34, 440C, the CPM 420V and 440V/s60V and s90V, are all stainless. 5160, 52100, L6, the 10xx series, O-1 are all non stainless, oil hardening steels. 2 completely different worlds. 5160 has .6 carbon content, compared to 1.0 of 52100, and .95 of O-1, and .75 of L6. the stainless steels usually have around 1.0 or more of carbon, and 14. chromium. The simple steels, aka the oil hardening, can be diff tempered, leaving the edge hard, and the back soft so they are tough blades. But they can rust if not taken care of, and may not last as long as a stainless blade. For a kitchen knife, stainless is almost a must, as many people don't understand they have to dry a High carb blade well before putting it away :rolleyes:

For a camp knife or big knife, 5160, L6, O-1 and the other simple steels are a very good choice due to the toughness they can achieve with a differential heat treat and quench. Also, most of the simple steels are easy to sharpen. Sharpening D2, ATS, with a regualr stone takes forever, ceramics and diamonds are very nice for the stainless stuff, but the simple steels are much easier to sharpen. The stainless might not stand up to the heavy usage as well as they are at a higher rockwell and are more brittle. But they wont stain, and are harder to sharpen.

As for not being in the same class as the others, its not supposed to be! you cant compare a stainless with a high carb blade, it is 2 different worlds! High carb blades take a wicked edge easily, and are easy to pop back up with normal sharpening stuff, where as the stainless are much harder to sharpen. High carb are much tougher and resilient, where as stainless are generally more brittle, harder to sharpen, etc.

I have used O-1, ATS-34, D2, 52100/410 laminate, and 1084 and 1095. All make great knives from what i have seen, Heat treat is a BIG factor. I like the high carbon steel because it is usually cheaper and easier to HT yourself than the stainless or tool steels. Also, it is much easier to work. I send my stainless/tool steels to Paul Bos for HT, so I know they are good. THe ones I do myself, i use them for testing and trying different methods of HT. I like the high carb because it takes a wicked sharp and clean edge easier than the stainless steels and tool steels.


My advice is to try the 5160 first. BG-42 and ATS-34 are much harder to work, and INFI u can't buy anywhere, its Busse steel, not available to people. O-1 is also a good place to start, as is the 1084 and 1095 steels. If you are forging, forging stainless is possible I think, but it harder. i am not a forger, but a grinder, so i am speaking from that standpoint. Don't try to go out and use the latest buzz word steel when you are starting off. It will be frusturating to work, take more time, cost much more, and if the knife doesn't come out well, you are out of that much more money.

People still use and love 5160, O-1, and all the other simple steels. 440C is also a good steel, but you don't hear it mentioned anymore. people love using buzz word steels, the newest and greatest supersteel, but the simple fact is that most steels are very good, depending on HT and what they will be used for. Many people like 440A or 420 HC because of the low cost, easy to sharpen and very rust resistant for production knives, collectors like stainless because the blades are less likely to corrode on them in their collection, and people who will use the knife like a tool steel or high carb blade because it is durable and easier to sharpen, but requires more maintenance. ALL steels are quality, depending on the purpose and heat treat. Good luck!
 
I would like to thank you all for answering and giving me valuable information. Taz, your post covers about everything I need to know. I am not a wanna-be knife maker yet (perhaps in the future), but I was thinking of having a knife made by a custom maker who uses 5160 steel. The knife I have in my mind is a 6-inch blade survival/camp knife with a 5/16" blade thickness (I am a fan of strong knives).
It looks like that 5160 steel is a good choice. Of cource, if you have any farther suggestions, I will be happy to know.
Thank you so much,
Fanis
 
Very cool. I am working on a 7" bowie from 1/4" O-1, Edge quench, with a brass guard and dark Koa wood handles. Can't wait to finish it!!! :) I like high carb, diff HT stuff cuz u get a cool temper line, and it performs great! :) But I also like tool steels and stainless for kitchen or hunting knives, because they are mostly more rust resistant and I know Paul Bos does an awesome job with the heat treat.
 
I don't think that there is much more that I can say here in the defense of 5160,which is my main steel of choice.Mainly because I have allot on hand,but when heat treated properly it will do anything you ask of it whether in a skinner or a Bowie.After Gaucho tested my EDS Bowie and it came through with flying colors,I can trust it completely...Remember that the carbon steels are what bulilt our country,and the stainless steels are just new hybreds of the old steels...
Just my 2 cents worth here,
Bruce
 
5160 is an outstanding steel, the tests that I've put it thru are
unbeleavible and it always stands the tests. Heat treated properly, it will do anything that you can ask of a knife and then some. Edge holding ability,sharpening ability and strength have to rank up there with some of the best steels or there wouldn't be so many big name knifemakers using it. The only down fall about 5160 is rust but with a little care it will last a lifetime. As far as rusting I have 2 stainless hunting knives with a lot of rust, all steels will rust except the stainless steels used in hospitals and there not worth much when it comes to a working knife. The word stainless means just that, it stainsless.:D

Bill
 
5160, if treated right, is not only a steel for big blades, but a good steel for small blades, too. And i have got an Al Mar from ATS 34 that rusts, a Spyderco Starmate from CPM 440V that rusts, a Chris Reeve Sebenza from BG42 that rusts and a custom made from CPM 420V that rusts, too. Oh, and i keep my using knives DRY and, if stored, oiled with Ballistol. Nobody tell me that these "new wonder steels" are stainless. It's a lie.

Achim
 
Achim is right, those steels are not stainless, they are more properly called stain resistant. Too much carbon. 304 is really stainless, but of course it makes a crummy knife. Now, heat treating does affect stain resistance in ATS34, but that's another story.

5160 makes a tough knife, particularly when differentially hardened. Remember, it's a spring steel. All those cars, trucks, and trailers cheerfully bouncing down the road can't be wrong!
 
The fact that many legendary knifemakers have used, and continue to use 5160 is a satisfactory "commercial" for me.. :) I'm guesing they know more than I do... :rolleyes:



"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
 
Not trying to offend anyone or nit-pick. At 60 points of carbon 5160 falls into the medium carbon steel class.
 
H-m-m. I guess it depends on whose charts you're looking at. The sources I've used in the past agreed with Rick Leeson, that with respect to "knife steels" 5160 fell into the medium carbon category, and that high carbon started at about 0.70%.

But that's not surprising. Some sources I've seen show the stainless variety starting at 13% chromium and others state 14%.

The reason I put "knife steels" in quotes above is that it can get confusing. For example I've seen several folks lament that they weren't getting very good results from railroad spikes that were rated as "high carbon". From what I've been told, even the ones rated as high carbon just meant that they were high carbon with respect to railroad spikes. When looking at them as a knife steel they were on the bottom end of medium carbon.

I'm not thowing all this out there for the sake of argument, but rather to highlight that information does seem to vary from one source to another.

I find 5160 to be a wonderful steel. The only reason I migrated away from it was because of the problems finding truly clean stock. It is so frustrating to have days tied up in a knife only to find those little specs and short hairlines (inclusions) when you're up to about 600 grit on the hand-rubbed finish.
 
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