Double Bit Axes ?

P

preventec47

Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
58
I am guessing that the old timers did not want to waste a lot of time out in the woods in trying to sharpen
a blade with stones and thus carried their own spare sharp blade. I noticed that the competition loggers
use a single bit axe. Am I missing anything as to why they existed ?
 
Either two bits could be sharp if one was a dedicated feller, or one bit was sharp for felling and the other was less delicate for clearing around tree, limbing close to ground and other rougher work.
 
There is a great article in this magazine by Wayne Van Zwoll
Here is my opinion,
They weigh the same. Double bits have a great swing with the wobble being balenced with the opposite bit. It's great for camping too because one edge is sharpened very fine for bucking and felling and the other is very obtuse for splitting and grubbing so if you hit the ground the edge won't chip out.

Double blades can increase the likelihood for injuries for the tired or careless user.

Nessmuk had a doubit hatchet for the reasons above. He was also a small dude.

A cruiser axe is double bit version of a boys axe and is arguably the most versatile pack axe known for being moble and getting serious wood work and processing done.

My Favorite however is a single bit with a curved handle feels like it hits harder and deliver more power comfortably when bucking logs
 
preventec47 said:
I am guessing that the old timers did not want to waste a lot of time out in the woods in trying to sharpen
a blade with stones and thus carried their own spare sharp blade. I noticed that the competition loggers
use a single bit axe. Am I missing anything as to why they existed ?
Click to expand...

Yes, you are missing something. Competition axes are used for 60 seconds at a time. The bit can be touched up between rounds or another axe can be substituted. Old time loggers were out working all day with 1 axe. No time to sit and file an axe - that was done back at camp at the end of the shift.


DeadboxHero said:
A cruiser axe is double bit version of a boys axe and is arguably the most versatile pack axe known for being moble and getting serious wood work and processing done.
Click to expand...

I'll argue that. A boys axe is more versatile and a full size axe is for getting serious work done.

I use axes regularly. I thought I needed a cruiser. So I got one. Then I got another, and another and another. But I NEVER use them. There's always some other axe that works better for every task. If I were an actual timber cruiser I might consider one but I'd probably go with a boys axe like every other modern timber cruiser uses.
 
People commonly suggest that axemen chose the double-bit for superior work with a second blade, but I've read several times now the axemen themselves suggesting that it was balance. Often they felt they were dangerous until they used them, then the balance won them over. I read a similar story today, the man did not like the poll axe because it was not balanced. If you would like I can copy the quote, it's from "Woodchips and Beans".

However, the manufacturers may have simply had the two blade function in mind from lumber sellers. I have one quite old single axe which is balanced like a double-bit. As well, old drawings of the earliest American axes suggest a balance much like that of double-bits, very large polls. This makes me wonder if the manufacturers tried to create a middle balance for an all-around axe, good for felling, bucking and splitting. I think generally a light poll is best for splitting and bucking, while the double balance is best for felling. I don't know the physics enough to say for sure, but it seems the in-between balance causes more wobble. I'd be interested to know the physics of the three balances in splitting and bucking.

I have questioned the same thing about competition axes. I have not handled one yet, so it is just speculation, but they look to be poorly balanced. Even the Tuatahi work axes have a miniscule poll which I can't imagine comes close to balancing out the axe. I have no idea why they do this, I have suspicions that it is some sort of ruleset for competitions. I would like to know the real reason though.

I have only seen a few single-bit axes from Maine which have significant enough polls to come close to balancing like a double. There are many more experienced collectors than me on the board though, so they may be able to offer some thoughts.

I've come to prefer the doubles for the balance. I mainly use them for felling, and a Gransfors splitting axe for splitting.

For the cruiser size I would agree with square_peg on the boy's axe/forest axe, really nice to have that poll in a lot of situations. A lot of smaller limbs you can knock off just as well with the poll. There's also the issue of testing a tree for rot and sway, much better with a poll axe. For professional axemen the trees were already selected in bigger operations, with a double-bit it's not really as convenient to test a tree. I have a Gransfors Scandinavian Forest Axe and a Walter's Black Diamond boy's axe. They're both great axes.
 
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Square_peg said:
Yes, you are missing something. Competition axes are used for 60 seconds at a time. The bit can be touched up between rounds or another axe can be substituted. Old time loggers were out working all day with 1 axe. No time to sit and file an axe - that was done back at camp at the end of the shift.




I'll argue that. A boys axe is more versatile and a full size axe is for getting serious work done.

I use axes regularly. I thought I needed a cruiser. So I got one. Then I got another, and another and another. But I NEVER use them. There's always some other axe that works better for every task. If I were an actual timber cruiser I might consider one but I'd probably go with a boys axe like every other modern timber cruiser uses.
Click to expand...
I'm more interested in recreational use.
My use of the word "work" has different connotations haha
I have no experience with the forestry industry. I read a cruiser axe was for a timber cruiser but out of curiosity how did that come to be rather then single bit with a poll?
 
Like Square Peg said, it was for getting more work out. The old time loggers chopped from daylight to dark 6 days a week. A double bit would go twice as long before needing sharpening.

As far as cruisers being more popular than boys axes with actual timber cruisers, I'm not sure that they were. There are a lot less on the used market. It's more individual preference there I would speculate.
 
A while back I gave my father a rehung and sharpened boy's axe. When I stopped by to hand it off to him he had an old friend over who is a retired surveyor. His friend called the boys axe a "surveyor's" axe. Of course that is probably because he was a surveyor but I asked him about a cruiser. He mentioned that they also called the cruiser a "runner's axe". He said he liked the lighter single bit as he spent time in dense growth on uneven ground and liked the idea of only one bit (and knowing exactly where it was).

He seemed convinced that the poll was valuable for driving stakes and markers. Of course, that was one person's take on it.

I have a no name cruiser that lived in my truck for years. It's been used for everything from camp firewood collection to clearing windfall off the butte where I live. The handle is missing a bit off one side of the swell which actually lets me switch the bit I am using by feel. It does a great job but it is in my garage now, replaced by a boy's axe.

My emergency and wood collection use certainly doesn't approximate the needs of a logger or surveyor by any means. In fact, my chainsaw does a lot of the work... I do, however, enjoy using my double bits and with the reduction in timber harvesting in my area there currently seems to be a glut of used ones around here - especially the swamping patterns.

*edit- I just noticed in the article that DeadBoxHero posted that the word "swamped" was used to describe the slimming of a double bit handle?
 
Square_peg said:
Yes, you are missing something. Competition axes are used for 60 seconds at a time. The bit can be touched up between rounds or another axe can be substituted. Old time loggers were out working all day with 1 axe. No time to sit and file an axe - that was done back at camp at the end of the shift.




I'll argue that. A boys axe is more versatile and a full size axe is for getting serious work done.

I use axes regularly. I thought I needed a cruiser. So I got one. Then I got another, and another and another. But I NEVER use them. There's always some other axe that works better for every task. If I were an actual timber cruiser I might consider one but I'd probably go with a boys axe like every other modern timber cruiser uses.
Click to expand...

I think this sums it up. It's about the work the tool is for. If you drop trees all day, it's probably nice to have a second edge that you don't worry as much about, and one that is strictly for getting to the heart of the matter (though I personally wouldn't be surprised if a timber faller started the day with both edges sharpened the same). But for versatility, the poll starts to shine. It's more difficult to perceive today I think. There were so many axe patterns because people used them so much, for so many jobs, that what seem like minor variations of the concept were actually useful specializations. Without using an axe as much as people did 100 or 150 years ago, it's hard to see why there are many variations at all. It's also easy, for someone like me who mainly just uses an axe to limb when we cut wood, and split a little each day for the furnace, to pick up pretty much any axe and find it useful.
 
"Logging was usually crosscut saws and axes. Pulpwood was usually with what they call a Swede saw, three and a half, four foot, one man. But two men could use a four-foot saw. I don't think the pole axe was ever popular in this valley. I could never understand how they could use them. They don't balance. A double-bitted axe, you always took the shortest bit for choppin' and your biggest bit for limbin'. Your choppin' bit's a little shorter than your limbin' bit. They had a balance to them, but a pole axe, I could never use one."
Robert Kincaid in "Woodchips and Beans"

I was thinking about this and it gives a bit of a different perspective. I have an unmarked double, likely made by a local blacksmith, which is noticeably longer in one bit, and the only vintage axe I have that was untouched is the same way. It's a Campbell's made in Saint John, New Brunswick and the longer bit is about 5/32" longer and ground slightly thicker. This could just be due to inconsistencies in hand-made products, but it does conform to what Kincaid said of axe use in the timber industry. The difference is easily noticeable to the eye as well and the axe is from their top line.

The Spiller I have which has seen very little or no sharpening isn't noticeable by eye, but is around 5/64" longer on one side.

This suggests a couple of things to me. First that the longer bit aids in limbing geometry, relatively steep at the edge and bevel but with a good hollow behind that. And second, the amount of time spent on the felling bit should cause it to wear more quickly, as long as damage is avoided. Limbing uses much less of the edge and often takes less time.

If they switched the edges I think there would be needless wear and they would end up with a less than ideal tool for the different jobs, basically making the tool lose its advantage in versatility. A properly sharpened axe only takes a few minutes touchup every 2-4 hours of work, maybe not even that. A lot of them probably had their axes sharpened at the end of the day. So I think it was just that the double-bit was a better balanced tool that could be used for two jobs.

The operations probably paid a big part as well. If a group had separate swampers to limb the trees a poll axe would be adequate, but having to individually get a thousand feet you'd be wanting that double-bit for sure.
 
I have questioned the same thing about competition axes. I have not handled one yet, so it is just speculation, but they look to be poorly balanced. Even the Tuatahi work axes have a miniscule poll which I can't imagine comes close to balancing out the axe. I have no idea why they do this, I have suspicions that it is some sort of ruleset for competitions. I would like to know the real reason though.

Re
I'm late to the conversation... SORRY! I own a Tuahtahi work axe (essentially a racing axe with a thicker edge). They are a precision piece of kit, of course it's balanced towards the cutting edge but this just helps it devour timber! I must say though at just under 3kg it's no light weight... It truly dwarfs any normal felling axe.
 
When I was cruising timber for the U.S Forest Service, we used a boys axe rather than cruiser because the pole could be used to sound logs for hollows.
I've seen some recent research among axe collectors that the double-bit falling axe was first used in Maine as the Moose River pattern and then evolved in to the other patterns as it crossed the country in different timber.
If you have ever tried on of the competition axes you know they are HEAVY! Not sure I would want to swing one all day. My understanding is they evolved in Australia for fairly soft wood you can throw big chips from. Timber sports competition in this country also uses very soft woods for chopping contests, red alder and popular. Probably a lot different than chopping on a big doug fir all day.
 
One for falling and one limbing I have heard. But any application mentioned here would be plausible. I believe axe often reflects personal preference.
 
"I use axes regularly. I thought I needed a cruiser. So I got one. Then I got another, and another and another. But I NEVER use them. There's always some other axe that works better for every task. If I were an actual timber cruiser I might consider one but I'd probably go with a boys axe like every other modern timber cruiser uses."
had a Plumb double sharpened by a professional years ago before i knew anything about chopping or axes. he did the dual thing, grubbing edge, felling edge. made since as i would only need one axe to do two jobs in the woods.
Cruisers, aw yes? love 'em. i am a short stature small framed guy,old too,lol .
a cruiser is just about all i can handle nowadays. a boys axe works for me too.
more to say later
buzz
 
cityofthesouth said:
I think this sums it up. It's about the work the tool is for. If you drop trees all day, it's probably nice to have a second edge that you don't worry as much about, and one that is strictly for getting to the heart of the matter (though I personally wouldn't be surprised if a timber faller started the day with both edges sharpened the same). But for versatility, the poll starts to shine. It's more difficult to perceive today I think. There were so many axe patterns because people used them so much, for so many jobs, that what seem like minor variations of the concept were actually useful specializations. Without using an axe as much as people did 100 or 150 years ago, it's hard to see why there are many variations at all. It's also easy, for someone like me who mainly just uses an axe to limb when we cut wood, and split a little each day for the furnace, to pick up pretty much any axe and find it useful.
Click to expand...
great observation. you've obviously given the history of axe use some thought.
we will never use an axe the way the big tree fellers used them, nor the cruisers nor surveyors or "bull cooks" or little old grannys splitting cookstove wood.
but we can dream of the good old days.

buzz
 
Thanks. Why do you find this balance helps devour timber?

Hoping to try one someday, just can't justify the money at the moment. We're talking six and a half pounds with the handle or without? I thought they were between 4 and a half and 5 for the head normally. That is a lot.
 
I keep coming across swamping patterns here.

One bit for limbing, the other one for...

Limbing?
 
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