Earthquake scenario advice sought.

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yam

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Sep 17, 2003
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This is the situation I am in. Currently I volunteer for an after school program for at risk middle schoolers. This program is located in the basement of a church. We can have as many as 30 kids with us at one time. I am questioning the wisdom of the churches emergency preparedness officer. I'm thinking the hallway would be the best place to go, the emergency preparedness officer is saying go to the parking lot. I am not saying they are wrong, and I am more than willing to say I am wrong. I just want some other non-biased, non-ego opinions.

As stated we are located in the basement of an approximately 50 year old church, which is three stories, with a bell tower, tall stained glass windows directly over our front door. In the basement, we also have windows on the exterior walls, a half glass front door, two big plate glass windows separating our two activity rooms. Here are your choices for where to go during an earthquake. Remember, you might have as many as 30 kids to get to safety as well. Could be any kind of weather condition ..... daylight, dark, sunny, rainy, snowing, windy, etc. You will also have to consider after shocks.

The choices:

You could go here (interior hallway with no windows):
Right off our activity rooms, there is a double wood door leading to a hallway that is approximately 8 feet wide by 25-30 feet long. Off that hall way there is a set of stairs leading up to the entrance level, a storage room, an art room and two bath rooms. I cannot tell beyond a shadow of a doubt if the walls are actually load bearing or not. Though I do know there are a couple of beams spanning the width of the hallway which are covered by the sheet rock and some cinder block walls covered by sheet rock. My best guess is that the hallway is fairly structurally sound.

OR, you could go here (outside):
Run across a small residential street to a sloped (maybe 10-20 gegrees) parking lot. This would require running out the front door which is half glass, under multiple (big) stained glass exterior windows and a bell tower. The parking lot is surrounded by power lines and telephone lines. However, once in the middle it appears that you would probably be safe from falling trees, poles and other debri. Once there, you might then be surrounded by downed, (possibly hot) power lines.

QUICK! Where would you take yourself and the kids to?
 
I always heard you aren't suppose to leave a building during an earthquake because of falling debris (especially glass). Depending on the severity, you wouldn't be able to walk far anyway, forget about leading a group out. :thumbdn:
 
Buildings collapse during earthquakes -- therefore leave the building !!!
 
I'm sure some of our West coast guys would chime in on this. We got a bit of earthquake training a few years back when the late Mr. Browning was predicting that the "big one" would hit the New Madrid fault. (it didn't...)

If it's a reinforced concrete building, the kind with lots of rebar, it probably will not collapse. Glass will break, and the roof might come down. Anything less than this robust construction, you will probably be safer outdoors. A secondary equation is fire from broken gas lines. They were reccomending that even residences have a spark-free gas feed wrench handy.

There can be a lot of falling glass from high-rise structures, which can be very dangerous. It can be very difficult to move or get people to move during a severe earthquake. The natural tendency is to hug the ground. Getting kids to move in an orderly manner during a severe quake might prove very difficult.
 
There was an engineer who attended my church for years who was an expert on structural design for earthquakes. He moved to Alaska.

Anyway, we were sitting in the basement fellowship hall of our 50 year old church on day and I asked him, "Dave, what happens to this building in an earthquake?"

"Simple. The four walls collapse inward on top of each other filling the basement in, then the roof will fall on top. We can pave over the top, and build a new building."

"But what happens to all the people inside?" another person at the table asked in horror.

"There're all Christian. We'll have a very nice service and errect a memorial marker stone."
 
Good luck whatever you decide. I experienced a mild tremor while in Manila many years ago. I just thought I lost my balance--I didn't even realize a tremor hit until I saw a basin full of water splashing around by itself.

It's hard enough standing up if an earthquake hits, let alone running to some predetermined area with a number of panicky individuals.

Keep your fingers crossed and just pray that it doesn't happen while you're at school.
 
Gollnick said:
There was an engineer who attended my church for years who was an expert on structural design for earthquakes. He moved to Alaska.

Anyway, we were sitting in the basement fellowship hall of our 50 year old church on day and I asked him, "Dave, what happens to this building in an earthquake?"

"Simple. The four walls collapse inward on top of each other filling the basement in, then the roof will fall on top. We can pave over the top, and build a new building."

"But what happens to all the people inside?" another person at the table asked in horror.

"There're all Christian. We'll have a very nice service and errect a memorial marker stone."
Click to expand...
Whoa, lived in Alaska for 3 years and every now and then we'd get tremmors after the big earthquake in Anchorage circa 1963. Your first instinct is to run outside. We had basement in military quarters but the school teachers led us outside to the parking lot.
 
This is a tough call, choosing the lesser of two evils with both having significant risks. I obviously want to make the best decision and limit injuries or loss of life. Though I don't know how I'll do in something like that, but at least I will have put more thought into it than the paid staff. Man, they don't even have a plan for an earthquake, if we have no phones (land or cell), no power, no flashlights, what to do with the kids ..... do we wait for parents who might not even be able to get to them, if so for how long and where? The manager looked at me like I had a horn growing out of my head, rolled her eyes and kind of smirked at me when I asked her about these things. She didn't have much of an answer for any of this stuff. I mean, we do live in Western Washington State and you would think they'd have some kind of plan. Well, I guess their plan is to not have a plan and hope nothing ever happens, how comforting. Now, I'm not thrilled at the prospect of staying inside a building that's 50+ years old during or after an earthquake of any magnitude. However, I'm also not thrilled at the prospect of running under large glass windows and power lines to get to safety. I know I'm quite capable of probably making it to a safe spot, but having maybe as many as 30 kids in tow is another matter. Guess I could say I'm just a volunteer, good luck everyone your on your own...... but I can't do that.

No, I don't lose sleep over this stuff and I don't obsess over it. But it's worth doing a little planning I think. So, I'm just trying to get some opinions and I really appreciate the input.
 
Yam, if I had that many children in my care I would be just as concerned, 1 child is too many to be concerned about much less than 35. I think it's a solid question myself and I really feel sorry that you have been smirked at. Keep up your good work and I feel sure your questions will be answered by a more informative person. :thumbup:
 
No freaking way I would be "hiding out" in a basement of a building waiting for it to come down on me. Forget that man.

I think you'd be safer in a open parking lot.
 
Yam, I suggest you call your county emergency management director, and ask him his reccomendations for your area.

Our states emergency operations center is at Camp Murray; you could also call there and ask the staff what the plan is for the Puget Sound area.

Good luck.
 
I have lived through two 8+ Richter scale earthquakes, we do training and simulations several times a year.

We learn not to exit the buildings until after the earthquake, I knew two people who died while going down the stairs in the 1985 earthquake here, one fell down the stairs (stairs are covered in debris, dark and shaking), the other one the building stood but the stairs collapsed.

Buildings are marked with "safe zones" these are where you go during the earthquake, areas around solid columns and strong walls, solid door frames, away from windows and from stuff that may fall over, you have to locate which are the safe zones in your building, the hallway you mention is probably the place, put a sign there and instruct people about it.

When you do get out don't run, go in a fast but orderly manner, instruct people, let them know who is in charge, you may want to keep a high visibility vest handy (we have them hung right beside desks at work), teach three rules: "I don't run, I don't push, I don't scream".

Keep and/or carry a flashlight, a simple one LED is good to EDC, If you are going to lead people, carry a whistle (I recommend Fox or Acme).

There should be exit paths and meeting areas predefined, the exit path should be the same as for fire (in case of fire you do leave the building fast), the meeting place should be outside away from buildings that may collapse, away from power lines, etc, you have to locate what's best in your case, parking lots are usually good, here we never worry about the weather but we never get snow or much cold and we can live with the rain.

Have water bottles in a safe place, strong but easy to reach, If the building collapses and you are trapped inside waiting for rescue, with no water you can live about three days, with water you can live about three weeks.

Luis
 
Thanks Cindy and the rest of you for the words of encouragement, means a lot to me. When I first asked the manager, she didn't even know. She at least asked, so that's good. I mean, she's a good and kind person, not very prepared, but she has a good heart.

I too am one of those people who carries about two flashlights one me at all times, two-three knives, small multi-tool. In my truck I have a Red Cross emergency kit, first aid kit, more knives, flashlights, spare batteries, tools, shovel, axe, blanket, etc. My wife is also as prepared where she works and in her truck.

The parking lot itself, on one side there's a 15 foot alley and a couple of two story houses, the second side has a yard and two story house and a tree, the two remaining sides have streets. The tree is only about 30 feet tall so it wouldn't reach all the way across the lot, probably not even to the middle of it. It getting to it is all I'm concerned about.

Man, I really do hate the prospect of being in that building but am not keen on running under big glass windows and power lines. But, I guess if I were a gambling man, and it was just me, I'd take the chance of getting to the middle of the parking lot. At least with this route I guess there's a better chance of more of these kids not getting as injured and actually surviving than taking the chance of getting crushed by an old building.

I was hoping for some way, some how, of guaranteeing a 100% survival rate, injuries so be it, but deaths ...... unacceptable. I guess I thought that if I just reaseoned it all out, considered as many factors as I could, if I was just smarter, I could figure it all out. But I suppose that's just not going to be in mine or anyone elses hands at that point.

I'm still not sure, it's a tough call. I'm not just gambling with my safety and well being.

Thanks again folks.
 
It's difficult to say without actually seeing your building. In my case here in Cali, as far as our house is concerned, our rule is in the first seconds to go immediately in the strong part of the house (which we've identified) or under a door frame.

After the first tremors as the house collapses, at least partially, we would make a run for open ground on our property away from any building. It's not a good idea to stay in any building that can collapse on you.
 
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