Edge Pro Matrix resin bond diamond stones

Blues said:
Speaking strictly for myself and fully realizing that everyone's taste is different, I see no reason to go higher with S110V.

(Call me lazy but I think you could make a good argument for stopping at 400.)

Have a look at this thread for some thoughts:

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/optimal-grit-for-s110v-pm2.1454565/
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i read a thread a while back where Ankerson did a bunch of testing on different steels for edge retention and he used a coarse edge finished with a 400 grit silicone carbide stone https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...ed-on-edge-retention-cutting-5-8-rope.793481/

i did try to finish with the 400 grit cktg diamond plate but i could not for the life of me get rid of the burr it created and i have never been able to free hand a blade. i would love to test the 400 grit finish out but i just cant get rid of the bur raised by a 400 grit stone, as you can tell stropping is not my strong point.

ETA: thats a really cool thread by the way thank you for posting that
 
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David Richardson said:
It's more a matter of how much material you want to remove and how much work you want to do. The course diamond plate tear up the edge quite a bit and a lot of material has to be removed to get back to a smooth edge.

The glass 16K is a 0.92 micron stone. I would only strop this with a 0.5 micron compound or less. Are you stropping for burr removal or to polish?
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i use kens CBN spray .10 micron on a nano cloth strop, but im fairly terrible at stropping so i may be doing more damage than good. i am stropping for burr removal. i could probably just stop at the 16k stone and call it good but i always thought getting rid of the burr was something that needed to be done.

as i have spent more and more time sharpening knives i am learning at a certain point it just diminishing returns.
 
kjca3 said:
i read a thread a while back where Ankerson did a bunch of testing on different steels for edge retention and he used a coarse edge finished with a 400 grit silicone carbide stone https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...ed-on-edge-retention-cutting-5-8-rope.793481/

i did try to finish with the 400 grit cktg diamond plate but i could not for the life of me get rid of the burr it created and i have never been able to free hand a blade. i would love to test the 400 grit finish out but i just cant get rid of the bur raised by a 400 grit stone, as you can tell stropping is not my strong point.

ETA: thats a really cool thread by the way thank you for posting that
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You're very welcome.

Jim Ankerson uses Congress Tools 320 and 400 Silicon Carbide Moldmaster hones.

https://knifeinformer.com/spyderco-military-s110v-review/

That might be an alternative for you to explore...though I'm very confident in David's Matrix Diamond stones.
 
kjca3 said:
i read a thread a while back where Ankerson did a bunch of testing on different steels for edge retention and he used a coarse edge finished with a 400 grit silicone carbide stone https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...ed-on-edge-retention-cutting-5-8-rope.793481/

i did try to finish with the 400 grit cktg diamond plate but i could not for the life of me get rid of the burr it created and i have never been able to free hand a blade. i would love to test the 400 grit finish out but i just cant get rid of the bur raised by a 400 grit stone, as you can tell stropping is not my strong point.

ETA: thats a really cool thread by the way thank you for posting that
Click to expand...

kjca3 said:
i use kens CBN spray .10 micron on a nano cloth strop, but im fairly terrible at stropping so i may be doing more damage than good. i am stropping for burr removal. i could probably just stop at the 16k stone and call it good but i always thought getting rid of the burr was something that needed to be done.

as i have spent more and more time sharpening knives i am learning at a certain point it just diminishing returns.
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I've moved away from stropping as I've gotten better at sharpening. I finish sharpening with alternating edge trailing strokes, getting lighter as I go. (Both EP and by hand). Any burr should diminish as you do this and when one pass per side with light strokes there really isn't any significant burr left with a fine enough stone.

This will work with the 400 grit CKTG diamond plate as well. The issue I had is that is leave a slightly ragged edge. Even without a burr it's not a very smooth edge (my opinion, I have taken microscope pictures of an edge).

For stropping I would suggest wood strops on your EP. Get some blanks, go to a hobby store and get some thin bass or balsa word, cut and glue to the blanks. I have several with different grit compounds. When the get loaded you can lightly sand them and reapply. You could probably clean them with alcohol as an alternative to sanding.
 
Diemaker said:
Like any full set of stones they are designed to work together, from coarsest to finest. You may be able to start with the 1100 Matrix after the CKTG 1k. Using very little pressure on the last few strokes of the 1k would help. For the price of return shipping, around $15, you can try out the full Matrix pass-around kit. This should answer all of your questions about them.

I finish all of my knives with the 4k then strop. I recently tried my kitchen santoku at a Matrix 650 but it cuts chicken noticeably better at 4k so back it went to 4k.

Grit sizes vary so much I like to talk microns for accuracy. But the difference in bonds is as extreme as it gets.
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Diemaker said:
Like any full set of stones they are designed to work together, from coarsest to finest. You may be able to start with the 1100 Matrix after the CKTG 1k. Using very little pressure on the last few strokes of the 1k would help. For the price of return shipping, around $15, you can try out the full Matrix pass-around kit. This should answer all of your questions about them.

I finish all of my knives with the 4k then strop. I recently tried my kitchen santoku at a Matrix 650 but it cuts chicken noticeably better at 4k so back it went to 4k.

Grit sizes vary so much I like to talk microns for accuracy. But the difference in bonds is as extreme as it gets.
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Thank you for your responses, i purchased the 250 and 650 grit stones and will give those a go. i plan on picking up the 2300 and 4K in a few weeks. S110V has been an interesting steel to play with the first manix 2 i purchased has seen a bunch of different edge profiles. i will eventually pick up the others just need to give the wife some cool down time lol.
 
Glad to see you started with the lower grits. Do the last few passes with the 650 with virtually no pressure and you will end up with an edge that is between the 650 and 1100. Even with no pressure the diamond in these stones will still cut. As always I find edge trailing passes once you reach the apex leaves the best edge. If you want to play with a toothy edge try the same with the 250.
 
Diemaker said:
Glad to see you started with the lower grits. Do the last few passes with the 650 with virtually no pressure and you will end up with an edge that is between the 650 and 1100. Even with no pressure the diamond in these stones will still cut. As always I find edge trailing passes once you reach the apex leaves the best edge. If you want to play with a toothy edge try the same with the 250.
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all the information I read about S110V after I posted in this thread originally made me realize I had been going about it all wrong, especially the method I was using to sharpen (leading and trailing).im pretty excited to get the stones and try out a new strategy on S110V I just haven't been very impressed so far with the steel but its more than likely due to me lol.
 
I haven't sharpened an S110V blade yet but have sharpened one Maxamet, which the stones loved.
 
I used the matrix stones on my blurple pm2 @ s110v and while the edge was not in bad shape, it went smoothly. I didnt go below the 650 and only progressed to 2300. For no real reason I didnt use the 4000. It responded a bit slower, but sharpened up fine. And I use light pressure only! I use trailing edge only strokes on the 2300 and 4000 when I use it.
 
s110v has more synergy with lower grit finish. The steel matrix is softer and packed to the brim with hard carbides.

The idea is to expose more Carbides at the apex with a toothy finish.

The reason why Maxamet is unique is because it's has a very hard matrix and very hard Carbides so it can synergy with more finish options.
 
DeadboxHero said:
s110v has more synergy with lower grit finish. The steel matrix is softer and packed to the brim with hard carbides.

The idea is to expose more Carbides at the apex with a toothy finish.

The reason why Maxamet is unique is because it's has a very hard matrix and very hard Carbides so it can synergy with more finish options.
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So you're saying there are some steels can be taken to a polish that will match the slicing aggression of something like 1095 sharpened with a lower grit?
 
hello Diemaker,
i am thinking of getting some DM stones, specifically the 250, 650, 1100, and 2300. i currently have a variety of SG stones for the EP. in your estimation, roughly what are the SG equivalent grits to these four DM stones?
thanks!
pat
 
Hi Pat, I did a comparison review between Shapton Glass and Matrix stones in post #11 of this thread for more information. The condensed version is Matrix on the left, SG on the right:
250 - 320
650 - 1000
1100 - 4000
2300 - 6000
 
well, i've been using my DM stones a bit and i really like them. i have a SOG folder in Bg-42, and with no pressure and only trailing strokes, they cut really fast. they clean up very well with ajax powdered cleaner.
it will be a while before i need to dress them. i am a clipper blade sharpener so i already have 240 grit brown alox grit, so i'm all set there. i was going to take a trip to Home Depot and see if they have any odd or scrap pieces of glass for a flat surface to dress them on. i was also going to see if they have any 12" x 12" ceramic floor tiles for this same purpose. i know home depot tends to standardize on brands and styles. does someone know of a particular brand and style of floor tile at HD that would serve as a good flat surface for dressing. i have seen some are bumpy / textured, but are there some good flats there?
thanks.
 
No idea what brand. I got a rectangular tile a Home Depot for $1.50. Works fine. I'm sure it's not absolutely flat. I really don't think it matters if you use approximately random movement on the tile.
 
If it is un-level and depending on just how bad it is it's going transfer to the stones your trying to flatten.

Your better off finding a window and door place and getting the to order you in a peace of tempered glass for about 10 bucks or so,I got a 14x14 peace for 15 bucks that is pretty thick as well.

David Richardson said:
No idea what brand. I got a rectangular tile a Home Depot for $1.50. Works fine. I'm sure it's not absolutely flat. I really don't think it matters if you use approximately random movement on the tile.
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wade7575 said:
If it is un-level and depending on just how bad it is it's going transfer to the stones your trying to flatten.

Your better off finding a window and door place and getting the to order you in a peace of tempered glass for about 10 bucks or so,I got a 14x14 peace for 15 bucks that is pretty thick as well.
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I get that this is the conventional wisdom. Mathematically it doesn't make sense to me. If you're moving the stone around and rotating it 180 degrees occasionally while dressing it, I don't see how or why perfectly flat is necessary, esp for a small stone like an EP. Any minor differences will average out to be the same over the whole stone. If all parts of the EP stone get equal time on a minor high spot, what would be transferred to the EP stone?

sickpuppy1 said:
?????
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Not moving it back and forth over the same spot on the tile in a manner that approximates random movement over the tile.
 
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