Edge Pro Stones

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tbailey0193

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I've been using an Edge Pro Apex for roughly two years. In so doing, the inevitable fact of having to reprofile some knives has surfaced. As such, I've been considering purchasing aftermarket coarse stones.

1. I want coarse stones that don't dish or require a lot of water to work efficiency. Would shapton glass or chosera stones suit me better? What grit should I choose?

2. I have seen diamond plates for the edge pro and have the following questions:
a) how long do diamond plates last? b) do they work better dry or wet? c) is it worth it to buy a premium brand over a less expensive house brand? (CKTG vs. Atoma)
 
I don't have an edge pro .but I have chosera stones .depending on the steel your sharpening they may not be hard enough to sharpen efficiently. Carbon steel? No problem at all. Super steels? They are close to the same hardness and glaze up quickly. I would go diamond. I have atomas and dmts. The atomas are very aggressive but last a long time. The low grit atomas are more for lapping though. You can use them after they're worn in but at first they're very aggressive. Dmts are great .I doubt you will have issues there .
 
The ultimate dish-resistant stones imo are the metallic bonded CBN stones from Gritomatic. The only problem is that they are pricey.

Other than that I'd probably go with the Atoma 140 grit. I've used the CKTG versions and they wear out pretty quick. I've never used them but I've heard of people getting quite a bit of life out of the Atoma diamond plates. They can be used dry but I prefer a splash of water on diamond plates.

I still prefer the Venev bonded diamond stones, they are more like a regular EP stone with abrasive distributed throughout the stone. They will dish out a little over time, but they can be flattened on a glass plate with SiC.

Do you use the EP 120 grit stone for reprofiling? It's the only silicon carbide stone in the set and pretty good at removing metal quickly.
 
I use Venev diamond #150 or Congress Tools Mold Master silicon carbide #240.
The diamond stone last quite long.
Sic stone lasts reasonably. It is very cheap and easily replaceable if you have a stone blank.
 
I 2nd the venev... But they also have bonded diamond stones from edge pro themselves and a few other brands.

I don't really like the regular diamond stones on the edge pro as they do not last too long if your a heavy sharpener or do it often. But using one at least to re profile helps speed things up alot to set the initial bevel.

If you don't have any of the super steels Sharpton glass works nice.

As for Cktg vs atoma both are nice. Atoma has a different pattern on its face iirc. My buddy uses the Cktg ones all the time and likes them. He also has the atoma but uses it only when he wears out the Cktg ones.
 
I own the full line of Edge Pro Diamond Matrix stones and have also used Venevs. The EPDM stones are phenomenal. They polish like a dream, wear slowly, and leave a hell of a bite while having an extremely uniform scratch pattern. There is also another stone coming soon to their lineup which is really quite good.

My only complaint is that the 2300 and 4000 grits (and the 1100 to a lesser extent) load really quickly. I find myself having to put water on the stones and scrub with my fingertip to loosen up the steel deposits before switching sides of the blade. More so on the second knife I sharpen after a fresh lapping.
 
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Basedlarrydavid said:
I own the full line of Edge Pro Diamond Matrix stones and have also used Venevs. The EPDM stones are phenomenal. They polish like a dream, wear slowly, and leave a hell of a bite while having an extremely uniform scratch pattern. There is also another stone coming soon to their lineup which is really quite good.

My only complaint is that the 2300 and 4000 grits (and the 1100 to a lesser extent) load really quickly. I find myself having to put water on the stones and scrub with my fingertip to loosen up the steel deposits before switching sides of the blade. More so on the second knife I sharpen after a fresh lapping.
Click to expand...

Would you recommend the diamond matrix stones over shapton glass or chosera?
 
tbailey0193 said:
Would you recommend the diamond matrix stones over shapton glass or chosera?
Click to expand...

I own a full set of Shapton Glass and a couple of choseras, in addition to the matrix stones.

Like Mo2 Mo2 said, it depends on the steel you’re sharpening. I use only diamonds on anything over 3% vanadium, which is most modern supersteels. There’s debate about the necessity in doing so, but I adhere to it.

At any rate, I’ve been using the diamond matrix stones on everything and have been very happy with the results. The way I see it is this:

With Shaptons, you’ll be limited in what steels you can sharpen without carbide tear out. With the matrix stones, you can sharpen whatever.
 
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The new 80 grit, 160 micron, is a beast. With CPM 4V the scratches are not terribly deep and the burrs are not bad. In a good 440c the burrs are big, the scratches are deep, and the metal comes right off. This stone is in a different class than the other Matrix stones, right down to the abrasive needed to dress them. The 240 AlOx doesn't touch it, you need sand, real sand. When dressing them it feels like running a piece of plywood on gravel covered concrete. You may want to dedicate a different flat plate to dress it as I expect the plate to wear fast, I am trying out a porcelain tile. EP has had them since the 9th and they may be on their web site in another week. Price is a step higher than the 250. Like the rest of the Matrix stones it is very low wear.

I have been meaning to post an anouncement but just havene't had time, hopefully later this comming week.
 
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Diemaker said:
The new 80 grit, 160 micron, is a beast. With CPM 4V the scratches are not terribly deep and the burrs are not bad. In a good 440c the burrs are big, the scratches are deep, and the metal comes right off. This stone is in a different class than the other Matrix stones, right down to the abrasive needed to dress them. The 240 AlOx doesn't touch it, you need sand, real sand. When dressing them it feels like running a piece of plywood on gravel covered concrete. You may want to dedicate a different flat plate to dress it as I expect the plate to wear fast, I am trying out a porcelain tile. EP has had them since the 9th and they may be on their web site in another week. Price is a step higher than the 250. Like the rest of the Matrix stones it is very low wear.

I have been meaning to post an anouncement but just havene't had time, hopefully later this comming week.
Click to expand...

Would the 60 grit SiC powder for the EP kit work on the 160?
 
Basedlarrydavid said:
I find myself having to put water on the stones and scrub with my fingertip to loosen up the steel deposits before switching sides of the blade
Click to expand...
Yes. Partly because the stones are so small. Even with my Shapton Glass EPA stones I often take the stone off and rinse it under the faucet (and rub it ). Sure it isn't the world's fastest method but the edges I get are worth what ever "trials and tribulations" I must endure to get to "heaven".
 
Basedlarrydavid said:
With the matrix stones, you can sharpen whatever.
Click to expand...
That'a what I was going to say.
I don't like fixed, old school, diamond plates and only use them when I must.
Do you see any down side to using the modern matrix stones
or
put another way any advantage to using the Glass or Chosera stones on . . . say . . . plain high carbon or good basic stainless ?

Thanks
 
Diemaker said:
The new 80 grit, 160 micron, is a beast. With CPM 4V the scratches are not terribly deep and the burrs are not bad. In a good 440c the burrs are big, the scratches are deep, and the metal comes right off. This stone is in a different class than the other Matrix stones, right down to the abrasive needed to dress them. The 240 AlOx doesn't touch it, you need sand, real sand. When dressing them it feels like running a piece of plywood on gravel covered concrete. You may want to dedicate a different flat plate to dress it as I expect the plate to wear fast, I am trying out a porcelain tile. EP has had them since the 9th and they may be on their web site in another week. Price is a step higher than the 250. Like the rest of the Matrix stones it is very low wear.

I have been meaning to post an anouncement but just havene't had time, hopefully later this comming week.
Click to expand...
Way to go :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
THANK YOU !
I still haven't found a super coarse stone to put in the Edge Pro that I like and that doesn't wear faster than the blade I'm sharpening hahaha.
I look forward to getting one of your new 80 grit, 160 micron beasts !
 
Wowbagger said:
That'a what I was going to say.
I don't like fixed, old school, diamond plates and only use them when I must.
Do you see any down side to using the modern matrix stones
or
put another way any advantage to using the Glass or Chosera stones on . . . say . . . plain high carbon or good basic stainless ?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Maybe. Obviously, diamonds are really aggressive and can remove way too much steel if you aren’t careful when using it on softer steels. They’ll also leave deeper scratches on softer steels. Basically, diamonds are so aggressive that they can be hard to control. Picture trying to drive an open-wheeled race car at 200 mph when you’ve only driven a Prius. I thought that S90V/M390 would be more difficult to sharpen due to their wear resistance, but with these, it isn’t a problem. In fact, I think they shine when used on harder super-steels. It’s like putting Mario Andretti in the race car. They’re going to work together extremely well.

Historically, Shaptons/Choseras tended to leave a cleaner, more precise (less toothy) edge when compared to say, DMT plates. But some of these new diamond waterstones (Matrix included) are eliminating that problem. The abrasives are really uniform and leave quite precise edges after you get used to them.
 
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Basedlarrydavid said:
Picture trying to drive an open-wheeled race car at 200 mph when you’ve only driven a Prius
Click to expand...
Everyday . . . but I have a bit or Walter Mitty about me. :D

Basedlarrydavid said:
S90V/M390 . . . with these, it isn’t a problem. In fact, I think they shine when used on harder super-steels. It’s like putting Mario Andretti in the race car. They’re going to work together extremely well.
Click to expand...
That's been my experience with old school diamond plates. Good to hear nothing is lost with these new ones. :thumbsup:

Basedlarrydavid said:
Historically, Shaptons/Choseras tended to leave a cleaner, more precise (less toothy) edge when compared to say, DMT plates. But some of these new diamond waterstones (Matrix included) are eliminating that problem. The abrasives are really uniform and leave quite precise edges after you get used to them.
Click to expand...
Now we get to my sort of edges and my fears about the new diamond matrix stones.
Great to hear they are awesome. I don't use that word lightly. I really want to like the new stones. I think they make so much sense for this modern age of edge tools.
I hesitate for two reasons :
Work is way down and major changes with my job right now.
My favorite steel, M4, has been sharpening up beyond my wildest dreams with the Shapton Glass and Spyderco Ultra Fine ceramic. It is almost inexplicable to me since it has 4% vanadium.

But there are all those other high vanadium steels that I have that totally suck after being sharpened with the same media. The edge is whittling but deteriorates rapidly where as the M4 stays stupid sharp while cutting the same challenging stuff.

I do look forward to getting a good spread of the new stones and especially the coarse ones ! ! !
Thanks for the info ! ! !
 
Would the following set up work well:

1) 80 grit diamond matrix stone (when available)

2) 220 grit standard edge pro stone

3) 400 grit standard edge pro stone

4) 600 grit standard edge pro stone

5) 1000 standard edge pro stone

6) 2300 grit diamond matrix stone

7) 4000 grit diamond matrix stone

Or is there a way I can get the same result as the above-mentioned progression with fewer stones?
 
tbailey0193 said:
Would the following set up work well:

1) 80 grit diamond matrix stone (when available)

2) 220 grit standard edge pro stone

3) 400 grit standard edge pro stone

4) 600 grit standard edge pro stone

5) 1000 standard edge pro stone

6) 2300 grit diamond matrix stone

7) 4000 grit diamond matrix stone

Or is there a way I can get the same result as the above-mentioned progression with fewer stones?
Click to expand...

It really depends on what steels you’re sharpening and what “work well” means to you. If you’re sharpening high-vanadium steels, you’ll end up with sharp yet brittle edges with that progression. The standard edge pro stones are AlOx, which isn’t as hard as vanadium/tungsten carbides.

What steels are you using and what is the end result you’re looking for?
 
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