Edge thickness before heat treat

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May 19, 2010
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Suppose one is hand filing bevels with O1, 1075 - 1088, and 440C steels, what would be recommended to leave as an edge thickness before heat treat to avoid edge damage during heat treat and yet still be able to hand work a good edge after heat treat? Everything I've read says not to go too thin, but I have no reference of what too thin is.

Thank you!
 
.025-.030" on carbon steel and you could probably go a little thinner with stainless, maybe .020". The thinner it is, the better chance of warping so error on the thicker side.
 
a proper answer depends heavily on what you will use to HT the blade

how precisely you can control your temperature and atmosphere.

with proper controls and oil (a kiln is preffered here) I'll take my edges down to about 0.025 prior to HT

if I was still using my forge and eyeballing temps I'd leave my edge at 0.05 minimum (just under 1/16th inch, im used to using decimal a LOT)
 
As Stephan said, it all depends on the HT and who is doing it.

I leave my stainless edges at .010". I take carbon to .020". Using an oven and proper metallurgical techniques, these thicknesses do fine.
Nowadays, Brad at Peter's does most of my blades. I still like to do 1084 and 1075 in the forge by eye. Hypereutectoid, stainless, and any steel with much alloy content is done in the Paragon.

In the beginning, most makers have several problems to deal with;
Lower ability equipment.
Lack of HT knowledge and experience.
Lack of grinding skills.

These all add up to needing a thicker edge in the beginning. Many folks recommend an edge of .030" to .050". This removes a few of the variables from the HT and gets you down the road faster. With time and more experience, you will start to thin the edge. I usually suggest about .030" for carbon steels and taking extra time on pre-HT sanding.

Why not take the edge to .010" or even .005"?? ...well, that starts a new problem. The decarb can penetrate several thousandths of an inch, which could lead to an edge that is all decarb. Also, at those thin sections, the steel moves easier as the phase transforms, and can cause warp and a "bacon twist" edge. Cracks are also more likely in a thin edge due to the great stress during the martensite transformation.

IMHO, every blade should have about .003-.005" removed from each side post-HT. Most of that is in the final sanding, but even if you want a 220 grit finish, take that off each side. It exposes much better steel and removes all decarb. We regularly see people with a dark splotch on the blade that won't buff away...it is almost always a spot of deeper decarb they left behind because, "Everything looked good after HT."
 
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Thank you!!

I think I'll have my first few blade attempts professionally heat treated. There is just way too much, even just in hand tools, to think about.

So maybe I will shoot for 0.025 - 0.030" (which looks pretty thin on the old caliper), and give myself some room; O1 is going to be my first steel. I don't know how this is going to work out yet as I still have not decided on how I'll build a file jig. I do have some aluminum profile (80/20 type) available at a tremendous discount, so I'm thinking of building a simple adjustable jig with that. Nick Wheeler's sanding sticks are pretty cool too, so I need to fashion something similar.

it is almost always a spot od deeper decarb they left behind because, "Everything looked good after HT."
I don't want to be that. I understand there will be failures, but I'd rather avoid them if I can.

Thank you again for taking the time!
 
Wow, I just joined this forum and am in awe of what a huge repository of knowledge is here. I bought an ancient Thermolyne heat treat oven last year and have done one batch of 1095 and o1 knives in it. However,being an impatient newbie,I put the knives in the oven cold and let the steel get to temp at the speed of the oven(like an hour,it runs on 110v) am I screwing things up with the O1 or 1095 by doing this?
 
Hey Moron ( no offense meant),
When you pull up an old thread in a search, look at the dates before posting on it. This thread is a year old. Some resurrected threads are ten years old. If you have a comment or question on the subject, it is best to make a new thread and link the old one for reference. Resurrecting old threads is called necro-posting, and should be avoided.
 
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