Electrolysis Rust Removal. What the hell am I doing wrong? Please help

JG Custom Metal Works

JG Custom Metal Works

Joined
Nov 27, 2013
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This is quickly becoming a very frustrating endeavor. Let me explain my setup first and foremost. The tank is a plastic tote and the anodes are four sections of rebar in each corner. Copper wire is wrapped around each piece of rebar and strung around the outside of the tank, connecting all the anodes. The solution is made from 7 gallons of water with 7-8 tablespoons of washing baking soda(sodium carbonate). Each axe head is wrapped with steel wire and hung from a piece of rebar that I ground the surface down on a bit. For an extra measure I laced copper wire trough the steel wires(above the water) and then clamped the negative batter charger clamp on the copper wire, steel wire, and piece of rebar. The positive clamp from the battery charger is clamped on one of the sacrificial rebar anodes.

I set up an electrolysis tang a few days ago with this cheap car battery charger:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Schumacher-XC6-6-4-2-Amp-Battery-Charger/15140194


It worked for a day and a half and then just stopped. It removed a nearly all the rust from the axe heads in the tank before it quit. For the life of me I can't figure out what is wrong with this setup. I've brushed off all the rebar anodes in the corners, switched outlets, brought the setup inside and plugged it into different outlets, switched out the old rusty solution with new, nothing. Today I went and bought new battery charger. It's this one:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Schumacher-Electric-2-6-8-Amp-6-12V-Battery-Charger/25955539

This charger hasn't worked at all. I'm not sure if there's a safety mechanism built into it that's preventing it from working or what. Here are some pictures of my setup(PICS WERE TAKEN INSIDE ONLY TO SHOW THE SETUP. PROCESS IS RUN OUTDOORS):







If anyone has any suggestions or ideas about what I'm doing wrong I would greatly appreciate it. This is driving me nuts.
 
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I have an electrolosis set up for cleaning and refinishing old cast iron cookware. Basically you want your positive cable clamped to a single big clean piece of steel, not the rebar in every corner. (this will be your sacrificial piece that all the rust will travel to.) Then clamp your negative cable to your item, just like you have in the picture, but try to get your axe heads as close to the sacrificial piece of steel as you can with out them touching. This is how I set my tank up and never have any problems making big 12 inch cast iron skillets look like new.

-Adam
 
Have you checked the fuses on the chargers? You might 6V instead of 12V.
 
http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u614/hellhound1983/electrolysis1_zpsb1067f53.jpg

In that photo, what is that wire in the top left attached to
is it in the water ?



Other than that, I'd try better connections
It's just like welding you need shiny bright metal for electricity to flow


Angle grind a clean spot on the rods and clamp a vise grip to it, then put the clamps on the vise grip



I'd try better electrical connections on the axe heads



I'd eliminate the chain link connector you have there, it's probably zinc coated





Does having the copper wire and steel both in the tank create a problem ?
 
I second the advise/simplify your set-up with one attachment point for each,the positive and neg.
 
I use little alligator clips on mine, its a real junk connection but it only runs a few amps and they are rated for ten. EDIT: More specifically I use the fluke branded alligator clips you get with their test leads. They may not be rated for ten amps, that is the meters max fuse, I should have been more careful.

I use a stainless steel bar for mine and hold it a little out of the water, I think it helps.
 
Adam Reese said:
Basically you want your positive cable clamped to a single big clean piece of steel, not the rebar in every corner. (this will be your sacrificial piece that all the rust will travel to.) Then clamp your negative cable to your item, just like you have in the picture, but try to get your axe heads as close to the sacrificial piece of steel as you can with out them touching.

-Adam
Click to expand...

Bingo. I ground down a big old unknown file and used it as the single positive anode. Tried to the the axe heads as close as possible. We now have bubbles and charger is turned on. Thanks for the help everyone.

If I ground down the rebar if it would they work better as anodes? What ampage are you guys using? I wonder if more ampage would speed up the process?
 
I used 10 amp charger for mine worked well. I used 2 files one on each side of a single axe head. The metal particles will only flow line of sight. If the line of sight is blocked even by another axe head it will not work as well.
 
Personally, I prefer a higher mixture of the Washing Soda, I use around 1 cup per 5 gallons. I've seen situations myself where it seemed the washing soda would settle out...and therefore not conduct very well. I could confirm this by stirring things up and it would work well...until I came back and checked on it an hour later...and it was stalled again. I believe my mixture while potentially excessive, just makes sure the water has enough to conduct the current.

Since the process works line of sight, the closer to the material you are removing the rust from to the sacrificial anodes....the better. It seems from your statement above, it was potentially too far away for the amperage you were using. Rebar has to be very clean in order to work. I usually wire wheel it daily to keep the process cooking....that is when I'm out of graphite rods. I prefer the pure graphite rods as they don't cause that nasty rusty sludge at the top and also seems to allow the part being cleaned to come out nice and clean with no need for the normal wire brush off afterwards.

You can increase the amps.....but caution should be taken. The higher the amps...once the rust is gone it can 'eat' the metal and cause some severe pitting, sometimes even if the whole piece isn't rust free, and just the portion closest to the anode is. I've seen it with friends who try to rush things and blast away with the charger in the 'start' setting and 50 amps. Then they are confused why their piece is pitted all to heck! I will 'start' the process on 10 amps, it seems to get the water charged and reduce it to 2 amps and just sit back and let it do its thing. Your charger might not be ideal...since its one of the fancy automatic ones. Those which can swap to a trickle don't work so well for this process. You want an old school 'dumb' one that just works till you turn it off. I have heard where people have bypassed the feature by connecting a car battery to the system and then it runs just fine.

From the picture it appears one head has a ring on it that is stainless or galvanized? That needs to be removed....when put in an electroylsis tank they cause a reaction which puts toxic chemicals in the water.

Also, I saw in the background a dog bed, chew bone and I think the dog food bag. That washing soda makes the water salty and dogs want to lick it, and even the exposed wires for the anodes can be dangerous to your dog since I assume he/she is less than 20 pounds (guessitimate from the dog bed and nylabone size). I was a vet tech for a decade and have seen what electrical shock can do to them....it isn't pretty. Move it out to your garage or close off the room its in.
 
Teter09 said:
Personally, I prefer a higher mixture of the Washing Soda, I use around 1 cup per 5 gallons. I've seen situations myself where it seemed the washing soda would settle out...and therefore not conduct very well. I could confirm this by stirring things up and it would work well...until I came back and checked on it an hour later...and it was stalled again. I believe my mixture while potentially excessive, just makes sure the water has enough to conduct the current.

Since the process works line of sight, the closer to the material you are removing the rust from to the sacrificial anodes....the better. It seems from your statement above, it was potentially too far away for the amperage you were using. Rebar has to be very clean in order to work. I usually wire wheel it daily to keep the process cooking....that is when I'm out of graphite rods. I prefer the pure graphite rods as they don't cause that nasty rusty sludge at the top and also seems to allow the part being cleaned to come out nice and clean with no need for the normal wire brush off afterwards.

You can increase the amps.....but caution should be taken. The higher the amps...once the rust is gone it can 'eat' the metal and cause some severe pitting, sometimes even if the whole piece isn't rust free, and just the portion closest to the anode is. I've seen it with friends who try to rush things and blast away with the charger in the 'start' setting and 50 amps. Then they are confused why their piece is pitted all to heck! I will 'start' the process on 10 amps, it seems to get the water charged and reduce it to 2 amps and just sit back and let it do its thing. Your charger might not be ideal...since its one of the fancy automatic ones. Those which can swap to a trickle don't work so well for this process. You want an old school 'dumb' one that just works till you turn it off. I have heard where people have bypassed the feature by connecting a car battery to the system and then it runs just fine.

From the picture it appears one head has a ring on it that is stainless or galvanized? That needs to be removed....when put in an electroylsis tank they cause a reaction which puts toxic chemicals in the water.

Also, I saw in the background a dog bed, chew bone and I think the dog food bag. That washing soda makes the water salty and dogs want to lick it, and even the exposed wires for the anodes can be dangerous to your dog since I assume he/she is less than 20 pounds (guessitimate from the dog bed and nylabone size). I was a vet tech for a decade and have seen what electrical shock can do to them....it isn't pretty. Move it out to your garage or close off the room its in.
Click to expand...

The ring was stainless steel. I had just brought the tank in to plug it directly into the plug in. It's running outside in the garage so as not to fill the house with toxic fumes. It will be no where near our little pup. I even mopped the floor after bring it inside.

Thanks for the info about the automatic batteries. I wonder if there are any new manual operation batteries available anywhere? I might need to hit the thrift stores tomorrow.
 
I've used the process to restore antique machine tools with great success. One thing, which I don't recall where I learned, but has worked well for me: try to have more surface area on the anode than on the work. I'd suggest doing the axe heads one at a time. And, yes, closer is better. Further away, and all you're doing is heating the water.

At some point, I had a lot of salvaged 1/8" diamond plate lying around, which I cut up and used for the anode. When it quit bubbling, I'd pull the anode out, hose it off, wire brush it, and put it back in the tank.

I also concur with Teters's advice: dumb'ole battery charger with a timer, the kind every garage used to have -- 200~250 amp starting feature, too. Just set it to 2 amps, give it time. It may take a couple of days -- and cleaning the anode daily -- but it'll get done like a boss.
 
That charger has an indicator for reverse polarity, it will likely incorporate a safety circuit that prevents you from using it as a power source. I grabbed a DC charger off Criagslist from an old standby generator.

Connect the negative lead directly to your axe head.

EDIT: you also want to do this outdoors so that you don't accumulate Hydrogen gas. Ventilating with homeowner style equipment is not safe.
 
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The below statement from "ron_m80" is very accurate . . .

You also want to do this outdoors so that you don't accumulate Hydrogen gas. Ventilating with homeowner style equipment is not safe.

A guy in central Louisiana used to buy old skillets, clean them up with this method & sell them. His garage & house is no more . . .major fire. . . worst part is he had to fight insurance company for a small portion of what he should have gotten. Simple wording in policy - basically no coverage for damage caused by "business pursuits" . . .

Just saying,
Steve
 
An easier, safer, means of rust removal... If you're not looking for immediate turnaround time... Molasses mixed with water is an effective rust removal method. I tried it because I doubted the effectiveness, something about the google images displaying such good results.... Low and behold, the results validated every single positive testimony and "proof" picture...
 
http://www.workshophero.com/

Metal Rescue Rust Remover Bath. Easy. Just let the part soak then rinse it off. You can reuse the bath over and over. When you are done you can dump it in the back yard or flush it down the drain because it is environmentally safe.
 
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