Emberlit FireAnt

[upnorth]

I have an old original Ti that I still like a lot. But I have been intrigued lately by the more pocketable, smaller version. I'm not worried about weight with such a tiny stove, so stainless may be an option. My questions are: Does the stainless stove hold up over time like the Ti ? Are there any corrosion issues with the stainless ? Is the stainless the same gauge/thickness as the Ti ?, as I have always felt the Ti to be borderline too thin. Is the pouch useable long term or a P.O.S. ? Are you happy with the FireAnt or do you prefer the larger original for practical use/larger fuel capacity? Thanks.

 

[LostViking]

I just went the other way. I have had an original in stainless. Last winter I bought the Fire Ant in Ti. So far so good. Like you, I see the Ti version as bordering on too thin. But time will tell.

I never thought that about the original stainless version. Which has served me well with no issues.

Emberlit had a decent sale last winter so I scooped up the Fire Ant and Trangia alcohol stove. This combo has been working well for me. Mostly boiling water for tea so far. But no issues.

Hope this helps some.

Also the difference in size and weight between the original in stainless and the Fire Ant in Titanium is pretty impressive. The FA in Ti is a no brainer to stuff in your back.

I am not a light weight maniac. But as I age and actually increase my distances. Lighter seems a smarter way to go.

The Original is now in my wife's get home bag in her vehicle. It has seen a lot of action and show no signs of impending failure.

 

[mewolf1]

Just packed my new FA in a dry bag for a day trip in the canoe. No experience with it yet, but suspect Emberlite has done there home work. As it has been said, time will tell.

 

[pinnah]

LostViking, is it harder to feed and run the FA?

 

[upnorth]

LostViking, is it harder to feed and run the FA?

Good question pinnah................... Thank you all gentlemen for the input, it is appreciated. As previously stated, I have the large Ti. So this will be a back up. I have no desire to pay over $100.00 for my next stove with dollar conversion and shipping. So this pocket rocket will be stainless. I just have to figure out if I will go F.A. or not.

 

[Sharp_Canadian]

I have both the original stainless and the f/a ti. While the f/a needs a bit more work on smaller wood and a watching eye it gets the job done just as fast when only boiling water. I boil in ti to so it transfers heat very quickly, I could see adding a minute or 3 extra if boiling in stainless. When going solo I only bring the f/a but in a group setting where I know people may not have a stove I bring both and don't really notice the difference when packing the f/a along with the original.

 

[HornyToad]

I have the original stainless version and the mini in titanium. The mini was the scaled down version before the fire ant. The mini is definitely lighter and does work fine. The titanium is thin but not too thin. I prefer the larger size as it is easier to feed and leave. If it were me starting over, I would get the large version in titanium.

 

[upnorth]

Thanks all. Looks like I will grab a stainless F.A. Basically the same weight as my large Ti, but in a more compact package. I can see the F.A. as being used in warm weather for me, and the larger unit being for cold weather use for various reasons. (your use info helped Sharp Can.) As an aside: My large Ti is quite warped, but still serviceable. I have no idea if it was just from running it very hot then letting it quickly cool off after snow dumping in sub zero weather or not. I boost started it more than once with fatwood. All the side panels have a permanent set or warp to them leaving some corner gaps. But it still does the job, and I still like the unit.

 

[Thomas Linton]

I boil in ti to so it transfers heat very quickly....

I read repeatedly on this and other forums that Ti conducts heat well - here "quickly." While I don't know how to quantify "well" or "quickly," materials science sites note that Ti "is not very good at conducting heat or electricity"; "is able to conduct electricity and heat, but it does so poorly"; [has] notably low thermal conductivity, and its ability to insulate components from the effects of heat gives it some applications in engines, where the material is allowed

Here is a table of thermal conductivity http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-metals-d_858.html Note that Ti is rated at 11-13 and aluminum at 144 at 400 F.

Ti is twice as strong as aluminum, but aluminum pots seem strong enough.

 

[Sharp_Canadian]

I read repeatedly on this and other forums that Ti conducts heat well - here "quickly." While I don't know how to quantify "well" or "quickly," materials science sites note that Ti "is not very good at conducting heat or electricity"; "is able to conduct electricity and heat, but it does so poorly"; [has] notably low thermal conductivity, and its ability to insulate components from the effects of heat gives it some applications in engines, where the material is allowed

Here is a table of thermal conductivity http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-metals-d_858.html Note that Ti is rated at 11-13 and aluminum at 144 at 400 F.

Ti is twice as strong as aluminum, but aluminum pots seem strong enough.

Yea I can't explain it myself because the info is clearly there that Ti is a good resistor of heat. Maybe it's due to its strength being so much higher allowing for much thinner material to be used than the traditional stainless kits. Side by side my Toaks boil a litre much quicker than my Chinook stainless kits, to be dead honest Ti is actually brutal for anything other than boiling water due to how quick it burns dinner.

Thanks all. Looks like I will grab a stainless F.A. Basically the same weight as my large Ti, but in a more compact package. I can see the F.A. as being used in warm weather for me, and the larger unit being for cold weather use for various reasons. (your use info helped Sharp Can.) As an aside: My large Ti is quite warped, but still serviceable. I have no idea if it was just from running it very hot then letting it quickly cool off after snow dumping in sub zero weather or not. I boost started it more than once with fatwood. All the side panels have a permanent set or warp to them leaving some corner gaps. But it still does the job, and I still like the unit.

The warping is just as bad in both but after hundreds of usages both mine are very serviceable. The large original only takes a small tap on one of the corners to 'set' the last panel latch corner in place.

 

[SwiftDream]

I read repeatedly on this and other forums that Ti conducts heat well - here "quickly." While I don't know how to quantify "well" or "quickly," materials science sites note that Ti "is not very good at conducting heat or electricity"; "is able to conduct electricity and heat, but it does so poorly"; [has] notably low thermal conductivity, and its ability to insulate components from the effects of heat gives it some applications in engines, where the material is allowed

Here is a table of thermal conductivity http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-metals-d_858.html Note that Ti is rated at 11-13 and aluminum at 144 at 400 F.

Ti is twice as strong as aluminum, but aluminum pots seem strong enough.

Well you can go by that chart or you can go by actual experience. I see folks referring others to that chart quite often with those same arguments but they don't have any real experience with what they are talking about.

I have several ti pots, several al pots and several steel pots for backpacking. One of the ti pots and one of the AL pots have the exact same diameter. The ti pot brings the same amount of water to boil a bit faster than the AL pot every time. The ti pot is lighter so for backpacking or hiking it is a very good choice and some folks don't like to cook on AL for other health reasons that I won't argue with.

I have seen the ti vs AL boil times replicated by others with real experience. Ti wins and will use less fuel over time which is another backpacking issue of carrying fuel weight too. This stuff has been around for a long time now, long enough that here is not more guessing over charts.

I'm editing this to add that the width of the pot has more to do with how fast the water will come to boil over the material of the pots when it comes to thin backpacking style pots. The wider the faster.

 

[Thomas Linton]

"Yea I can't explain it myself because the info is clearly there that Ti is a good resistor of heat. Maybe it's due to its strength being so much higher allowing for much thinner material to be used than the traditional stainless kits. Side by side my Toaks boil a litre much quicker than my Chinook stainless kits, to be dead honest Ti is actually brutal for anything other than boiling water due to how quick it burns dinner."

Because it does not conduct heat well, the heat from the fire or stove stays concentrated where it most intense.

As you suggest, performance may have more to do with thickness. Or it could be magic.

 

[pinnah]

Ti has(had) magic qualities in cycling for a long time. (Shrug)

I thought the reason Ti mugs don't burn your lips is low heat conductivity. Less vibration too!!

 

[upnorth]

Yea I can't explain it myself because the info is clearly there that Ti is a good resistor of heat. Maybe it's due to its strength being so much higher allowing for much thinner material to be used than the traditional stainless kits. Side by side my Toaks boil a litre much quicker than my Chinook stainless kits, to be dead honest Ti is actually brutal for anything other than boiling water due to how quick it burns dinner.

The warping is just as bad in both but after hundreds of usages both mine are very serviceable. The large original only takes a small tap on one of the corners to 'set' the last panel latch corner in place.

Fair enough bud. My whining about warpage issues can't be that bad if I can still put the panels back into the original case. Although she's a snug fit. But yes, everything is still serviceable, which is the bottom line.
:thumbup:

 

[leghog]

I read repeatedly on this and other forums that Ti conducts heat well - here "quickly." While I don't know how to quantify "well" or "quickly," materials science sites note that Ti "is not very good at conducting heat or electricity"; "is able to conduct electricity and heat, but it does so poorly"; [has] notably low thermal conductivity, and its ability to insulate components from the effects of heat gives it some applications in engines, where the material is allowed

Here is a table of thermal conductivity http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-metals-d_858.html Note that Ti is rated at 11-13 and aluminum at 144 at 400 F.

Ti is twice as strong as aluminum, but aluminum pots seem strong enough.

TI pots must be made ultra thin to conduct heat since one of TI applications is it's relative lack of heat conduction (one reason it is used on supersonic aircraft). That's why Ti they make pour hot liquid cups -- burn your lips --- unless double walled. If double walled then heating/cooking in them is very difficult and would be worth the extra fuel needed. I'll stick with my light weight aluminum pot with lid/skillet from Trangia regardless of the stove I use.

I thought the reason Ti mugs don't burn your lips is low heat conductivity. Less vibration too!!

Single walled Ti mugs can and do burn your lips. Speaking from experience. That's why lip savers are sold for them.

Also Ti makes poor cookware for anything but boiling water. Hot spots above any flame which is problematic when using with stoves. Ring of burn or spot of burn. Heat isn't distributed well across cooking surface.

 

[alewn]

i never saw the point in these things? you just have to bust up your wood into a lot smaller pieces, meaning a lot more work.

 

[JV3]

i never saw the point in these things? you just have to bust up your wood into a lot smaller pieces, meaning a lot more work.

maybe you're confusing it with a gassifier wood stove? the emberlit is different. most of the time i just pick up twigs and branches that's about 1" thick or less and use it as fuel as is. it's incredibly fuel efficient too...by the time someone built a big enough fire to put a liter of water on for boiling, chances are i've already got my liter of water boiled with a lot less wood than the other guy used to start his fire

these last two pics show all the fuel needed to boil a liter of water...and i used them as is - just keep feeding it in the emberlit.

 

[JV3]

i like my fireant...perfect pairing for a usgi-style or similar-sized cup. for a 900 ml or larger pot though i usually go with the full-size one since i'm most likely be boiling a lot of water or cooking real food so the bigger flames/more heat/larger feed port for using larger wood is helpful.

fireant with the heavy cover canteen cup...that size cup or something similar is also fine with the full-size version but i like using the cross-bar with it for extra stability.

LostViking, is it harder to feed and run the FA?

the feed port is smaller so you can't stuff as many pieces and you have to feed it more frequently due to the smaller chamber...not really noticeable if you're just boiling a cup or two of water and that's it...for melting snow, cooking real food, or boiling water for 2 or more people though i prefer the full-size version.

 

[alewn]

I can't see any reason to bother with such stoves. They just require you to do more work breaking up your wood.

 

[JV3]

I can't see any reason to bother with such stoves. They just require you to do more work breaking up your wood.

so you have your mind closed even after someone with years of experience with them said there's no need to even break up wood...in case you missed what i said above...you're missing out on a great tool but that's cool

these last two pics show all the fuel needed to boil a liter of water...and i used them as is - just keep feeding it in the emberlit.

you've also ruled out a heated shelter...pretty nice when it's cold outside...that all-titanium stove is only a pound by the way.

all radiant heat to dry out wet socks and boots...no risk of burning since there are no exposed flames.