ESEE Izula: What's so special?

[KennyB]

Couple of points.
Jim and I and others have had discussions about 1095 left "soft" While these plain carbon steels may have an as quenched hardness of 65 or as high as 67 if you do it REALLY right like properly handled 52100 in salt baths, leaving them at 65 for a field knife might be a bit risky. With that said, I haven't left any knife softer than 60-61 in years and that includes big bowies. No problems. I wonder just how good the "proprietary heat treatment" of some of these knives is if they end up as soft as 56-57? Remember that 1095 is nothing more than W1 that doesn't have to be as clean and that was a problem with 1095 for a number of years. Also, while it is a very basic steel, it is not the easiest stuff in the world to heat treat. I wonder how much retained austenite you might find in some of these cheaper, lower hardness 1095 blades?
As for the Izula, yes, it is a $60 knife until you put the ESEE scales on it. Then it appears to be a $100-110 knife which puts it in the wheelhouse of a lot of other small hard use knives. That makes a bit of difference because you are not that many dollars away from being able to buy a knife in CPM 3V or some other "super" steel. I personally can't see much use in having a fixed blade like that without slabs.

Izula + Micarta scales = $75
Izula II with scales included = $75
TKC G10 scales for either = $40

BRKT Bravo Necker in 3V = $109
Scales for Bravo Necker = $50-$60

So I'm not sure where you're getting the $100-$110 figure unless you're considering them with the TKC scales. So basically we're talking $100 ( since I think the TKC scales are better, let's just call it that ), and $160 for the 3V necker. I guess a lot of people don't have a problem with $150 on a knife--I really don't, but frankly I would have a lot of questions if the 3V was really worth the extra $60 if I wanted to buy a new necker. On top of that their sheath doesn't look that great so I'd have to factor in costs of a different sheath, maybe even having to get a custom to make belt carry feasible.

Those are all a lot of extra costs that just get swept under the rug.

Oh, I will say that there's a lot of hype going around about the Rowen heat treat that pretty much boils down to some kool-aid. Lots of people will say something like, "Oh, I cut through a log with mine and it still shaved arm hair." There is one pretty good video of a guy carving through a 4x4 and it still being sharp, but I really don't think that's the same. People act as if it transcends the normal wear resistance of 1095.

Personally I think it's just fine in comparison to a few other steels. KaBar's 1095 CroVan and Cases CV are about equally wear resistant, I don't really notice an appreciable difference. I have a knife in 14C28N that's treated to 58-60 HRC and that one only has a modicum of extra wear resistance. Meanwhile the only one with any real discernible difference is S30V. I've also got a Buck in 420HC that I would say doesn't hold an edge as well as any of these mentioned...

I've cut through rough stuff like carpet, fiberglass insulation, weathered bamboo, etc. Those all dull it like they'd dull most other knives... Though it still stays sharp enough to be a "working" edge after that. With other things like just simple woods, plastics, papers and even cardboard, it stays nice and slicy for a looong time. Doesn't shave hair for long, but I don't use it to shave so... Yeah

 

[CrimsonTideShooter]

Izula + Micarta scales = $75
Izula II with scales included = $75
TKC G10 scales for either = $40

BRKT Bravo Necker in 3V = $109
Scales for Bravo Necker = $50-$60

So I'm not sure where you're getting the $100-$110 figure unless you're considering them with the TKC scales. So basically we're talking $100 ( since I think the TKC scales are better, let's just call it that ), and $160 for the 3V necker. I guess a lot of people don't have a problem with $150 on a knife--I really don't, but frankly I would have a lot of questions if the 3V was really worth the extra $60 if I wanted to buy a new necker. On top of that their sheath doesn't look that great so I'd have to factor in costs of a different sheath, maybe even having to get a custom to make belt carry feasible.

Those are all a lot of extra costs that just get swept under the rug.

Oh, I will say that there's a lot of hype going around about the Rowen heat treat that pretty much boils down to some kool-aid. Lots of people will say something like, "Oh, I cut through a log with mine and it still shaved arm hair." There is one pretty good video of a guy carving through a 4x4 and it still being sharp, but I really don't think that's the same. People act as if it transcends the normal wear resistance of 1095.

Personally I think it's just fine in comparison to a few other steels. KaBar's 1095 CroVan and Cases CV are about equally wear resistant, I don't really notice an appreciable difference. I have a knife in 14C28N that's treated to 58-60 HRC and that one only has a modicum of extra wear resistance. Meanwhile the only one with any real discernible difference is S30V. I've also got a Buck in 420HC that I would say doesn't hold an edge as well as any of these mentioned...

I've cut through rough stuff like carpet, fiberglass insulation, weathered bamboo, etc. Those all dull it like they'd dull most other knives... Though it still stays sharp enough to be a "working" edge after that. With other things like just simple woods, plastics, papers and even cardboard, it stays nice and slicy for a looong time. Doesn't shave hair for long, but I don't use it to shave so... Yeah

Ding ding ding. Depending on the wood that video doesn't prove much at all, other than the low abrasive power of some woods.

They see that video and literally think that just because it says "Rowen" on the blade, ESEE's 1095 is some kind of magical super steel. I love my ESEE knives, but they are just plain old soft 1095.

 

[chiral.grolim]

If a giant load of knives busted by throwing isn't proof that throwing knives can cause them to break, well, you're going to keep looking for that thar proof.
Sometimes even knives designed for throwing break.

You probably would have a hard time breaking an Izula by throwing it though, as it's very low mass. You probably wouldn't get any real use out of throwing it either.

Well, target practice counts as use, plenty of "throwing knives" as small as an Izula out there.

And as to the "giant load", I'll meet your giant load and raise you EVERY knife of such hardness EVER thrown that did NOT break upon impact, and indeed every INSTANCE in which a thrown knife did not break upon impact. Care to compare figures? As anecdotes go, the latter "proof" makes your (and their) notion look ridiculous. Now if you'd like to talk about physics, geometry, and material science rather than anecdotal evidence, then you might stand a chance. But NO, what you offer does NOT constitute proof of anything other than that knives can break, which isn't in contention.

 

[Ankerson]

I've cut through rough stuff like carpet, fiberglass insulation, weathered bamboo, etc. Those all dull it like they'd dull most other knives... Though it still stays sharp enough to be a "working" edge after that. With other things like just simple woods, plastics, papers and even cardboard, it stays nice and slicy for a looong time. Doesn't shave hair for long, but I don't use it to shave so... Yeah

Compared to what?

That is the real question....

 

[stabman]

And as to the "giant load", I'll meet your giant load and raise you EVERY knife of such hardness EVER thrown that did NOT break upon impact, and indeed every INSTANCE in which a thrown knife did not break upon impact. Care to compare figures? As anecdotes go, the latter "proof" makes your (and their) notion look ridiculous. Now if you'd like to talk about physics, geometry, and material science rather than anecdotal evidence, then you might stand a chance. But NO, what you offer does NOT constitute proof of anything other than that knives can break, which isn't in contention.

Fair enough.
The busted knives are "proofy" enough for me...I won't be throwing any knives.
Not that I would anyway. There's not a screaming load of practical use to it, and I hugely suck at throwing knives anyway.

But for everyone else, chuck em all over the place.

 

[KennyB]

Compared to what?

That is the real question....

You asking what actual knives I compared to? I didn't wanna write a novel, but maybe I should elaborate a tad more...

Case CV was in a Trapper
420HC in a Buck 119
S30V in a Benchmade Kulgera
14C28N in a Kershaw Needs work
1095 CroVan in a KaBar USMC
1095 (CroVan maybe?) in a Old Timer Dogleg Jack

Anyway, I never saw a huge, apparent difference in wear resistance amongst these various knives and steels. Though really they all kind of deviate from each other a lot, and I can't say I've used the Buck 119 or the KaBar to cut through all the same materials that I would use a smaller knife for.

But as far as the other smaller knives, I've put most of them through the same paces. The Trapper for example, once it gets dulled it really stops cutting... Maybe that's 'cause the hollow grind. I think with the Kulgera ( high sabre grind ) and the Izula ( full flat grind ) the blade geometry is such that those edges generally last a lot longer before I feel like they take too much effort to cut stuff.

So of all these knives, and steels, the two I like the most, that I feel cut the longest, etc, is one in 1095, and one in S30V.

 

[troutfisher13111]

For me its just the perfect size to usefulness ratio. Any smaller and it would lose some of it's abilities, and larger and it loses ease of being carried. Add in it's overall quality, outstanding warranty, super tough coating, and useful design, and you have a winner in my book.