Evenheat KO 22.5 with TAP controller

TonyRV2

TonyRV2

Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
270
Ok guys...I know I got turned around recently on a grinder purchase :rolleyes:, and now, after all the talk this weekend about heat treating issues I think I'm just going to go ahead and buy an oven. So I'm looking at an Evenheat K0-22.5 with the TAP controller. I know there are a few folks here that use this or a similar model Evenheat. How are they working out for you? Are there any others that I should look at that give as good a bang for the buck as this one seems to do? True Grit seems to have the best price that I've found, but I don't yet know what shipping will be...just sent them an email asking. Thanks in advance for responding.
 
I have the kf 27 with tap and I love it. You can program your whole heat treat cycle in very easy and then just run the cycle for whatever steel you are using. If I would have known before I bought it I probably would have gotten the bill Burke special which has an extra layer of insulation between the bricks and metal, but other than that it is a pretty solid little setup. Also, something I am excited about is they have an app coming out where you can run it all from your phone without having to check on it, which I think is way worth the tap controller


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I'd just read about the Bill Burke mod the other day and I understand that Evenheat will do this for you. I'll have to ask them what they charge for this and then I'll post back. Also, I'm wondering what the increase in efficiency would actually be in doing this.
 
The KO-22.5" oven with the TAP controller is $1250 at TruGrit. Tack on another $145 for shipping to FL. I've also sent them an email about the Bill Bourke modification today so I should know by tomorrow what the want to do that. I'm still wondering what the gain in efficiency would be since I've read on another thread that the top of the unit reaches around 120deg. F when the oven is run at typical HT temps, without the mod. I guess I'll just have to weight this against what they want to add it on.

This unit draws 3.6 kilowatts from a 240V line. At 25 cents per kilowatt-hr (a little high, I know but being conservative) the oven would cost about 90 cents per hour to operate at full bore. Lets just call it a buck an hour. If I ran a normalization/HT schedule for 4 hours it likely wouldn't cost even $3 to operate since I wouldn't be operating it at full temperature. Lets be optimistic and say the Bill Bourke mod improves efficiency by 20%. This would only represent a savings of around 5 cents per hour of operation. So for instance if Evenheat wants $150 to do the mod (which I don't know yet), it would take 3000 hours of operation before a person would break even!!

Am I missing something here? Why do folks want this mod?
 
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the Bill Burke mod is to help keep the outside of the oven at a reasonable temp. at typical HT temperatures the outside without the mod gets so hot that you cannot touch it without getting a burn. with the mod you can put your hand on it but not hold it there. This is a significant difference in the outside temp of the oven. at stainless HT temps you will get a blister out of touching the outside of an un modded oven. Last I knew the mod added about 30-40 bucks.
 
I have a 22.5 with the Rampmaster controller and it's so easy to use and adjust. Between their videos and the specific recipes for the various steels, heat treating at home is the easiest part of making my knives. I'm sure the TAP controller would make it even easier. The outer stainless shell gets painfully hot at full HT temps, but it hasn't been an issue for me. The only "issue" I currently have is that I can't do a temper cycle right after a full HT pass as the oven stays too hot for a long time even with power removed and the door wide open. I'm thinking of getting another unit so I can run both at the same time.

Oh, and personally, I'd get a larger unit with a more basic controller for the money. I'm starting to make longer knives and the tips are getting closer and closer to the rear of the oven and the heating elements. As small as these ovens are, there are still temp differentials in them.
 
Well, not to dissuade you but you could always still just get the grinder, build a simple/cheap forge, and then just focus on doing simple high-carbon steels. A good grinder is SOOO important and IMO much more important than a heat treat oven if you don't already have a good grinder. Also, the oven is just one part of the whole heat treating thing.

To get the most out of the oven and the high alloyed steels you're gonna need a cryo-treatment setup. An acetone slurry but in the long run you'll want a liquid nitrogen dewar($300-$800).

You're gonna need a hardness tester to be able to continually test your heat treatments for consistency. You don't wanna just be firing in the dark, thinking you're HT'ing everything right, and really sending out blades that are soft. It's kind of tough to get some of these complex, high-alloy steels heat treated. You miss one little thing or have something small off and it's not where you want the hardness. Personally, I'm want to be able to test each blade I HT. Hardness testers are another $1000 unless you hit the Craigslist lottery and find one of these $200 Wilsons.

You'll also need quench plates, stainless steel foil(not cheap), blade fixtures, quench oils, and finally you'll need to make sure you have electrical support. I know I'm forgetting something. The point I'm trying to make is that, like with everything in knifemaking, there's a TON of other stuff you're going to need to do the whole process.

I actually just got that EXACT model Evenheat in last week and am trying to get the whole electrical thing figured out. It looks like I might have to drop another $200 or more maybe to have an electrician come out and wire up a receptacle.

So yeah, IMO you should get the grinder instead of the oven. You could get a small forge, HT 1084 with it, and also learn some forging while you're at it. Get an Atlas Mini Forge or one of his burners and build your own. I had a Atlas to start and it's a very fun and valuable(experience-wise) way to go. You'll likely still use the forge down the road, even after you get a oven.

If I misunderstood your opening post and you ARE getting the grinder then please forgive me lol. The above info could still be used as a checklist for what you'll need with the oven.
 
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All good stuff JG. I ordered an Esteem grinder from Brett Mathews week before last. I thought about buying a small Atlas forge and doing simple HT's in it but figured I might as well go all in and spring for a proper oven. I'll be grinding 1084 for now but after I get decent at it I want to start doing stainless. I love the science and technology behind all of this and am currently studying metallurgy on my own. I've taught electronics engineering for the past 30 years so I have an affinity for this sort of thing...you know...beating myself up in trying to master a concept. :p I'm actually looking forward to purchasing all of the sundry items required to HT more elaborate steels, as well as eventually acquiring a hardness tester. I'm retiring after the next school year, and this is what I have planned to keep me busy in the golden years. I'm simply moving out of the electronics lab, (30+ years is enough!) and into a metallurgical lab!
 
Justice4all said:
I have a 22.5 with the Rampmaster controller and it's so easy to use and adjust. Between their videos and the specific recipes for the various steels, heat treating at home is the easiest part of making my knives. I'm sure the TAP controller would make it even easier. The outer stainless shell gets painfully hot at full HT temps, but it hasn't been an issue for me. The only "issue" I currently have is that I can't do a temper cycle right after a full HT pass as the oven stays too hot for a long time even with power removed and the door wide open. I'm thinking of getting another unit so I can run both at the same time.

Oh, and personally, I'd get a larger unit with a more basic controller for the money. I'm starting to make longer knives and the tips are getting closer and closer to the rear of the oven and the heating elements. As small as these ovens are, there are still temp differentials in them.
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TenebrOs mentioned that the Bill Burke mod only costs $50...I may have that done if thats the case. Not that it would improve efficiency all that much, but it would certainly help in keeping the shell cooler. I'm not sure that I'd splurge on another oven just for tempering...heck...an old toaster oven would do the job. But to tell you the truth, I did have it in my mind that I'd be able to temper immediately following the quench. How long are you finding that it takes for the oven to cool down to the 400 to 500 degree range?

I can't imagine that I'd need anything bigger than this oven...though never say never, right? My interest is with hunting knives, and butcher knives. If I were going to make anything larger than that I'd likely take up forging though thats not in the cards right now. Admittedly though, forging up some damascus does have some appeal. I'd read in another thread that folks will put a fire brick near the back of the oven to keep the rear coils from radiating directly on the blade. Others make a sort of a muffle by using firebricks stacked upon one another.
 
TonyRV2 said:
All good stuff JG. I ordered an Esteem grinder from Brett Mathews week before last. I thought about buying a small Atlas forge and doing simple HT's in it but figured I might as well go all in and spring for a proper oven. I'll be grinding 1084 for now but after I get decent at it I want to start doing stainless. I love the science and technology behind all of this and am currently studying metallurgy on my own. I've taught electronics engineering for the past 30 years so I have an affinity for this sort of thing...you know...beating myself up in trying to master a concept. :p I'm actually looking forward to purchasing all of the sundry items required to HT more elaborate steels, as well as eventually acquiring a hardness tester. I'm retiring after the next school year, and this is what I have planned to keep me busy in the golden years. I'm simply moving out of the electronics lab, (30+ years is enough!) and into a metallurgical lab!
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Oh okay. See I was thinking you had decided to get an Evenheat INSTEAD of a 2x72 grinder. After reading that big thread last week, and chiming in a time or two, I was yelling NOOOOO!!!!! at the computer lol.

Hell, with your background maybe you could give me some advice. Maybe you could chime in over on my threas with some of your electrical expertise and let me know if I'm gonna blow up my oven, myself, or my garage. 😀

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ring-a-Evenheat-kiln-Pigtail-50amp-to-a-20amp

It would definitely be appreciated.

As far as the oven you're looking at, it's the way to go IMO. I've always read that you should go bigger than what you need and the longest blades I see myself making at comp cutters or big Bowie's. 5" handle, 10"-15" blade is plenty of room for me to work with.
 
JG Custom Metal Works said:
....Hell, with your background maybe you could give me some advice. Maybe you could chime in over on my threas with some of your electrical expertise and let me know if I'm gonna blow up my oven, myself, or my garage. 😀

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ring-a-Evenheat-kiln-Pigtail-50amp-to-a-20amp
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I've kept up with your post and actually spent 15 minutes or so trying to locate an off the shelf pigtail for you, but to no avail! You did get some good advice on that thread, which is why I didn't comment myself. Build yourself a pigtail. One of the posters supplied the NEMA numbers for the parts and if I recall, you were off to the store to purchase what you needed. I only have one concern about this in that your running a 20amp device on a 50amp circuit. It will work, but you are not afforded proper protection in the event of an electrical failure of your equipment. The likelihood that this would ever be a problem is remote, and to tell you the truth, I would do the same thing, but temporarily. Eventually you want to think about installing a 20 amp circuit for your oven. Maybe you could go on craigslist and find an electrician that would be willing to barter electrical work for a handmade knife. :)
 
I verified that the Bill Burke mod will be $50 from Evenheat. With about a $145 delivery charge that brings that total price for a KO-22.5 with the TAP controller to $1445. I'm going to go ahead and order this tomorrow or Friday. Onward and upward.
 
TonyRV2 said:
I verified that the Bill Burke mod will be $50 from Evenheat. With about a $145 delivery charge that brings that total price for a KO-22.5 with the TAP controller to $1445. I'm going to go ahead and order this tomorrow or Friday. Onward and upward.
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Tony, I sure do appreciate all the research (and math, mainly math) you do for me! First on grinders now on ovens.
 
This thread is pertinent to my interests. I too would like to get a very versatile kiln/oven. I am looking for the best value in the largest kiln I could get that runs off of standard 110 plug.
 
Living The Dream said:
This thread is pertinent to my interests. I too would like to get a very versatile kiln/oven. I am looking for the best value in the largest kiln I could get that runs off of standard 110 plug.
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Evenheat does manufacture an oven for 110V but be aware of the operational differences between this and a 220V unit. Naturally, a 110V unit is going to operate at a lower power rating which means that the oven is going to take longer to come up to temperature...significantly longer. For this reason, most folks would advise to go with a 220V model if at all possible. I initially thought I'd get a 110V unit as well, but after careful consideration I decided that I'd run a 220V line. I was going to eventually run 220 for the grinder anyway, so now I have all the more reason to install that circuit.
 
the Tap controller gives more program options and presets. It is also capable of wifi control via smart phone. so for instance if you want to check the progress or stop start a program while you are away from your shop you can do it with your phone.
the rampmaster controller holds only nine preset where the tap controller holds I think 24. the rampmaster is very easy to program but the tap is even easier.
 
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