Experimenting with leather hardening and vacuum forming

SeanH

SeanH

Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Messages
64
Experiment and results.

I just got a Beautiful Mini Skinner from Mike (Bark River Knife & Tool) and noticed that the sheath was loose enough to allow the point of the blade to bump against a rivet. To prevent this I wanted to form the sheath around the knife so it couldn't be inserted too deeply. I also wanted to try the leather hardening method found at

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Articles/Perfect_Armor_Improved.htm

More detailed info on the different methods of hardening leather can be found HERE.

I thought I would need to hold the leather in its formed state around the knife while the leather hardens. I was probably wrong on this point. Anyway I hit on the idea of using a vacuum food storage bag system to evenly form the hardening leather around the knife.

Well, I worked. Possibly too well. The whole process took 15 minutes, not counting the hardening time. Here are the steps I took:

  1. Soak empty sheath in room temp water for 10 minutes.
  2. While sheath is soaking, in a separate pot, heat enough water to cover the heath to 180 degrees.
  3. Remove the sheath from its room temp soak, after it has taken up as much water as it's going to, about 10 minutes. Put it into the now hot water (180 degrees)
  4. Watch it. Wait for a slight darkening and curling of the leather at the edges.
  5. At 70 seconds it darkened very slightly and the edges began to curl. Evidently this is the point that the leather starts to change its structure.
  6. I left it in for another 30 seconds after the darkening and curling started. the longer you leave it in, the more hard and brittle it will become after it sets.
  7. Remove the hot sheath from the pot, dump excess water from the sheath and insert knife and belt loop spacers. I used wooden tongue depressors for the belt loop spacer, this was to assure there would be room for my belt after the leather hardened.
At this point, you could probably do the normal bone folding process described by tmickley on his site LINK.

However, in typical Tool Man Taylor fashion, I stuck the knife in its hardening sheath in a bag and sucked all the air out with a vacuum food storage bag system set to high. I then let it set in the vacuum for three hours before I opened the bag. I shouldn't have used the high setting, I think. The sheath came out so perfectly formed to the handle that I can see the contours of the finger grips through the leather. But the area around the blade looks, well collapsed is the best way I can describe it.

The leather really did harden well and the knife snaps into the case as if it were well formed kydex. So that part of the experiment was a resounding success.

I think I will try the vacuum pack method again but with less power. I like the way the leather forms so perfectly to contours of the handle but I don't like the way it looks sucked in around the blade. Need a happy medium.

7 hours after removing from the hot water, the sheath is as hard as kydex of the same thickness. I wonder if is as springy? Maybe a possible replacement material?

Here are the pictures:

This first one is the knife and ferro rod in the sheath and the tongue depressors in the belt loop all in the vacuumed and sealed bag.
VacFormedHardened01.JPG


This one shows the belt loop after the sheath was formed and hardened.
VacFormedHardened02.JPG


This one shows the leather form fitting to the contours of the handle (good) and the way it sunk in around the blade (bad).
VacFormedHardened03.JPG
 
Well... the part you think is bad you can chalk up to not only a learning experience but a unique sheath as well. :D

Interesting idea for sure , I dont think I've heard of anyone using a vacuum pump to hard form a sheath.

Unless I read your post wrong , or you forgot to mention it, one should take great care when doing what you did , especially with carbon blades since it can rust inside that sheath fairly quick. I found that out the hard way one night while forming a sheath , the leather was not even wet like yours , just the heat and condensation was enough to pit my beautifully polished blade in several spots.

Thanks for the post.
 
rebeltf said:
Well... the part you think is bad you can chalk up to not only a learning experience but a unique sheath as well. :D

Interesting idea for sure , I dont think I've heard of anyone using a vacuum pump to hard form a sheath.

Unless I read your post wrong , or you forgot to mention it, one should take great care when doing what you did , especially with carbon blades since it can rust inside that sheath fairly quick. I found that out the hard way one night while forming a sheath , the leather was not even wet like yours , just the heat and condensation was enough to pit my beautifully polished blade in several spots.

Thanks for the post.
Click to expand...

Excellent advice. I left my Barkie skinner in the wet sheath setting up for 4 hours. When I removed them from the bag and the knife from the wet sheath, I saw it covered with small black specks. Probably corrosion in a vacuum. A session with a rag and a bottle of fritz took care of it but had the metal been a tool steel it could have been worse.
Maybe sealing the blade first would help.
 
You might want to wrap the blade in a Saran Wrap type material when forming the sheath, it will protect against rust and will give you a little space, possibly avoiding the sunk in look.
 
Broos said:
Pretty neat, and nice sheath - thanks for sharing.
Click to expand...
I'd love to take credit for the sheath but can't. It came with my Mini Skinner from Bark River Knife and Tool
IUKE12 said:
You might want to wrap the blade in a Saran Wrap type material when forming the sheath, it will protect against rust and will give you a little space, possibly avoiding the sunk in look.
Click to expand...
Thanks! I'll try that. maybe a light coat of oil first, as an added precaution.
 
IUKE12 said:
You might want to wrap the blade in a Saran Wrap type material when forming the sheath, it will protect against rust and will give you a little space, possibly avoiding the sunk in look.
Click to expand...

Not trying to step on toes here but that will not work. You will get rust on your blade unless you use some sort of oil to protect it when doing this process.

I've heard of some folks using heavier coats of car wax in lieu of an oil.
 
I think your technique is excellent. It never occurred to me to use the vacuum sealer when I was casing my last sheath. Good Thinking! As far as protecting the blade during this process, definitely use plastic wrap, and oil the blade before-hand. (WD-40 is good too)
Harry
 
That is a really cool idea, and makes me want a vacuum sealer now. I like hardened leather sheaths a lot. They offer the great look of the leather with the security of Kydex.
 
Overall, that looks like a smashing success. Good job!

A quick question....anybody know if a hardened sheath will still soak up dye ?
 
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