Eyelets not flaring properly

B

blandies

Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Messages
159
EDIT
With the help of a nice gentleman I found I was flaring the wrong side of the eyelet.
However I do have 2 new questions on this subject..

My eyelets come out with a small inner lip, is this normal or what's going on? I use an arbor press with knifekits dies.
Also the prefinished side of the eyelet gets the black coating slightly scratched off when flaring all around the circle, is this normal?
This picture below shows both of these problems. Top eyelet shows the lip problem, bottom rivet shows the coating coming off.

vzg9za.jpg
 
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Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting the question but... are you concerned that when you are done flaring the two sides don't look the same? If so.. that is completely normal. The unflared side once flared, will not look the same and appear to be a "smaller" lip than the pre-flared side. This is the case even with using the correct size rivets for whatever thickness of material you are attaching.

As for the scratched finish... I have found that if I use a very thin piece of cloth and drape it over the female end of the flare (the side which your pre-flared side sits) it doesn't interfere with the flaring process and keeps the finish clean. If you want to clean up scratches on black rivets a sharpie does wonders though.

Hope that helps!
 
Solution - order all kydex stuff from Tracy next time. :thumbup:

www.usaknifemaker.com

Look for "premium siska" eyelets.

If you're getting scuffs and things on your eyelets, they make stuff called brass black that will restore them. Never had finish issues with Tracy's eyelets though. I'm not sure about the coating/paint on other brands, but these have a shiny kind of black oxide on them. There's nothing to "chip" off.

Like Jonathan said, having a smaller "lip" on the other side of the sheath is normal. It gets even smaller when you use thicker material. (less eyelet material to flare).

You can get thicker and fuller looking eyelets by using thinner kydex, but you can run into all kinds of other problems. Thin kydex sucks to work with, and you run a better risk of cracking your eyelets when there's more material to flare.

(Theee worst operation I've had in knifemaking yet was trying to remove a damaged eyelet. I'd rather start all over.)
 
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Thanks for the advice in regards to the finish. Would a dryer sheet work to put over the die or is that too fiberous?

About the lip, I meant in the middle of the eyelet sandwiched between the two flared ends there is a very small burrish type lip. If you look closely at the picture you can see it on the top eyelet from the middle of it moving to the right...the left side did not do this. In person it looks bronzish or like the black coating has all been chipped off and looks to be a long sharp burr, only it is solid and won't just chip off. Here I painted red over the area I'm talking about. It doesn't show up as prominent in a picture.

11w4jrt.jpg
 
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Interesting... are these rivets from knifekits? None of mine have this "lip" that you pointed out (they are #8-8 from knife kits) but I have had a few split on me while flaring... I think I would follow Josh's advice and order your supplies from tracy in the future... I think I'm going to start doing that too.. he has cheaper prices and more rivet colours too.
 
These are the 1/4" from knifekits. I think Tracy's 100pck is a dollar more but what's a dollar. I wouldn't think it would be due to bad eyelets since I've heard good from knifekits, plus this happens consistently. It's making me wonder if my dies are somehow messed up.? I looked very closely and my top die being the flat one does has a very very small nick but that should have no effect since all it does is push the preflared side down. Everything else on the dies look fine. And I can't think of any scenario being wrong with the dies that would make a small inside burr like this,and I'm very picky at noticing small things.
I'm not understanding how these "burrs" keep forming.
 
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Try using a black plastic garbage bag. It will allow the rivets to move while still applying an even force. This is a secret in deep drawing stamping dies.

Please post if it works for you.
 
I just tried with no success,Carl. I took a few more pictures of what was happening and did notice something..

Here is the first picture,

2hnxloh.jpg


and here is the other. Notice the one on the left I pressed thinner than the one on the right. After thinking more into it I put the eyelet on the left to my kydex and noticed the thickness of my kydex .080 is the same thickness as the gap in the eyelet on the left....I will be folding over for sheaths so it will be double that. So I pressed some other eyelets a bit wider as it will be in the kydex and this happened, the right hand eyelets bottom is doing the same as the others only worse. I know I have the right size because knifekits website says "1/4" eyelets for .080 kydex which I use. I know the unflared side will be a smaller circle but these that I flared don't have much of a mushroom going at all, half of it is paper thin. I've got to be doing something wrong.

s3zq01.jpg


Hope this helps someone to help me figure this out.

2 more pictures. It looks like half of the eyelet isn't even flaring..

288cdut.jpg


2zh46cy.jpg
 
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I use the 0.080 kydex and use the ones they recommend for that thickness as well (two pieces of 0.080 rivetted together that is). Try a couple test pieces are press hard to get a good flare, yes it will still looks small but it is definitely mushroomed enough.

If you really have a lot of trouble with rivets, try PMing Daniel Fairly. He has mentioned that he has switched from rivets to binder screw posts (also from usaknifemaker.com) on his sheaths with great success, that may be a good alternative for you.
 
I appreciate you trying Carl and I will keep that trick in mind.
Since I'm new to all of this I'm sure I'm doing something wrong. But if it is a problem with the dies I would like to figure that out before my return policy with knifekits runs up so I can return them if need be.
I'm contemplating calling knifekits and asking for a return but I can't be sure anything is even wrong with them.
 
Have you tried actually pressing them in 2 pieces of kydex?
 
Josh Mason said:
(Theee worst operation I've had in knifemaking yet was trying to remove a damaged eyelet. I'd rather start all over.)
Click to expand...

I spent probably a total of 3 hours removing damaged eyelets. In the end it always ended up in me making a new sheath..
 
I have flared them into kydex yes. They did seem to turn out slightly better but that could just be because the kydex covers up the problem area more than if it were bare.
Here are some pictures of the eyelets into kydex. 2 turned out how I would like them to be..the rest showed that middle lip burr.

The 2nd picture below..the 2 eyelets on the right have that lip formed if you look closely. It's like it mushrooms back up the opposite direction.

2hxnmnm.jpg


210n6mc.jpg


2hzk3fp.jpg


2s9rptk.jpg


2mwgxvr.jpg



I checked some of my knife sheaths to compare and did find some 1/4" eyelets on a kydex kabar sheath I have which is like new and every eyelet is lipped just like mine if not worse. So maybe it is in the technique rather than my dies. If that is the case..no problem. I just wanted to know if the dies are doing their job properly.
 
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Very interesting... I can't say I've ever seen that. Some of them look fine but some you clearly see that "burr"... I'm gonna call bad rivets on this one.... I'm using the midprice flaring dies from knifekits and never had a problem beyond a few split flares....
 
It's all working fine. You need to work on your centering. The fouled ones resulted because things weren't lined up.

Also, the flares are designed to 1)seat, the other 2)flare. Make sure you are putting the pre-rounded side of the rivet to the seat side and the tubular looking side to the flaring side.
 
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I've been using the correct side for flaring. On every one I pressed I made sure to my best ability to center the eyelet with the dies and also to center the dies, and I have pretty good vision. Is there any secret to centering everything? Every one I pressed seemed like it was dead center.
I'm taking it you've seen this before, alb1k.
 
My bottom die is in a block of hardwood that moves around. I put the piece in and close the press with very little pressure, moving the piece ever so slightly until I feel it seat properly. Keeping pressure I then press the rivet. Occasionally I don't center properly and have to drill out a rivet.
 
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