Fairbairn Sykes Fighting knife vs M42 Infanteriemesser

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Legendary_Jarl

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Feb 8, 2010
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I recently saw this knife that has been called infanteriemesser M42 &/or Luftwaffe boot knife and the design appealed to me a lot. I got this Indian made replica not too long ago. The craftmanship is less than stellar, but it is better than the craftmanship of the dagger sitting next to it, the Fairbairn Sykes made in Sheffield, England. The FS has reached mythical status. One of the most if not the most sought after WW2 antiquities. If searched for on Ebay one will find thousands of cheaply made replicas and a few originals. Yet, the other knife, the M42 has faded into obscurity. Only known about in few collector and reenactment circles. Why is that? In my opinion the design makes for a better weapon than the Fairbairn Sykes: Easier to mass produce, stronger tip, slightly better cutting edge, better edge alignment when cutting thanks to handle shape, etc. In my view the design of the M42 is superior. Yet, it is the other knife that has survived even to modern days. The design of the FS was flawed from the start, in my opinion. And the fact that it changed several times throughout the war and then the Applegate-Fairbairn was created seem to support that opinion. Is it because of the association with the commandos? Is it because the M42 was a weapon of the enemy from our perspective? That last one is unlikely because of how popular and sought after are the H. Youth fahrtenmesser...

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What do you think caused that great design to almost fade into oblivion? Do you agree with my assessment of the Fairbairn Sykes?

I recently got a copy of the book Deutsche Kampfmesser 1914-1917 by Christian Méry. There is a better version I'm trying to get which covers the period up until 1945. Honestly? From what I've seen the Germans could have been the "bad guys" in both wars but IMO they have the better knives. 🤷🏼‍♂️

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I watched a recent review of the FS of Sheffield, and his main gripe was that it came with literally no cutting edge. He could saw it back and forth across his arm.

Now this gentleman is a historian, HEMA practitioner, and has been an instructor for 20 years. He fully understands that the FS was a dagger with a set of moves involving very few cuts or slashs and almost all stabs to vital areas thst would result in rapid blood loss/dropping of blood pressure/unconsciousness/death. Even still, he stated that the knife should cut.

Still, it's one iconic dagger. I used to have one, but I won't pay Sheffield prices today for a dull knife. A knockoff will satisfy my curiosity. Personally, I have always like the M3 Trench knife to be a fine weapon. Thrusts better than a Kabar but is more functional than a FS for other stuff.
 
Steely_Gunz said:
I watched a recent review of the FS of Sheffield, and his main gripe was that it came with literally no cutting edge. He could saw it back and forth across his arm.

Now this gentleman is a historian, HEMA practitioner, and has been an instructor for 20 years. He fully understands that the FS was a dagger with a set of moves involving very few cuts or slashs and almost all stabs to vital areas thst would result in rapid blood loss/dropping of blood pressure/unconsciousness/death. Even still, he stated that the knife should cut.

Still, it's one iconic dagger. I used to have one, but I won't pay Sheffield prices today for a dull knife. A knockoff will satisfy my curiosity. Personally, I have always like the M3 Trench knife to be a fine weapon. Thrusts better than a Kabar but is more functional than a FS for other stuff.
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I saw that video kinda of disappointing .
 
I have never held a FS dagger. But after reading the historical hype I did look at it a bit. Seems to me that the so-called foil grip is not ideal for quick use in the dark. Listening to the tactical experts on "Forged in Fire", they place some imortance on being able to know the orientation of the blade by feeling the grip.

The long narrow point also looks fragile to me.

That is all I know, and none of it is based on experience.
 
I have a copy of a WWI German Trench knife, made by my friend Pekka Tuominen, that is very similar to the M42, as well as another one from Pekka, a reproduction of the Union Zella knife of WWI. In High School I used to go into NYC to attend the Automobile Show and on one trip coming back thru Times Square, bought a F&S knife, taken in by the history of it. I took it to Vietnam on my first tour in 1965, and it took me about a nano-second to realize just how worthless it was as a combat knife. I was so worried about the tip breaking off, not in combat but just trying to use it, that I took a file and knocked about 1 1/2 inches of the tip. I still have that knife, but NEVER carried it again. The M42, original or good reproduction is a far better combat knife than the F&S is. The book by Christian Mery is excellent, spent a lot of time reading it, and that was were I got the idea to have Pekka make me the WWI Trench knife and the Union Zella knife. John
 
Steely_Gunz said:
I watched a recent review of the FS of Sheffield, and his main gripe was that it came with literally no cutting edge. He could saw it back and forth across his arm.

Now this gentleman is a historian, HEMA practitioner, and has been an instructor for 20 years. He fully understands that the FS was a dagger with a set of moves involving very few cuts or slashs and almost all stabs to vital areas thst would result in rapid blood loss/dropping of blood pressure/unconsciousness/death. Even still, he stated that the knife should cut.

Still, it's one iconic dagger. I used to have one, but I won't pay Sheffield prices today for a dull knife. A knockoff will satisfy my curiosity. Personally, I have always like the M3 Trench knife to be a fine weapon. Thrusts better than a Kabar but is more functional than a FS for other stuff.
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Matt Easton of Scholagladiatoria. Such a treasure. His channel is definitely my favorite nowadays.

Talking about gripe with Sheffield quality.. look at this junk:

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This was made by the Egginton group. Supposedly forged by hand and balanced for throwing and still in use by commonwealth forces... imagine being a soldier and receiving this kind of crap. Wonder if I should bother sharpening it.
 
The Austrian M1917 and the Italian M1939 are two others in the same vein -

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.

Useful, but semi-forgotten.

The commando association is the big thing with the F/S, but another big thing that helped was that tons of them were surplus-ed out. Well into the mid 70's, you could buy a lot of them for $3-6, depending on the year, including many of the rare variations. Way cheaper than new, which ran $12-15 in the late 60's, early 70's.
 
Let’s be real here no one is purchasing either of these knives for their practicality today. Instead, they are purchased due to their association with a war and warriors that are rapidly moving out of living memory.

Is the German knife more practical? Of course so is a kabar or a good hunting knife. The commandos weren’t awarded kabars or German knives at graduation, they were given fairbairn Sykes fighting knives. That’s why they are more popular.

I’ll take an original FS every time.
 
Legendary_Jarl said:
xKRO43O.jpeg


I recently saw this knife that has been called infanteriemesser M42 &/or Luftwaffe boot knife and the design appealed to me a lot. I got this Indian made replica not too long ago. The craftmanship is less than stellar, but it is better than the craftmanship of the dagger sitting next to it, the Fairbairn Sykes made in Sheffield, England. The FS has reached mythical status. One of the most if not the most sought after WW2 antiquities. If searched for on Ebay one will find thousands of cheaply made replicas and a few originals. Yet, the other knife, the M42 has faded into obscurity. Only known about in few collector and reenactment circles. Why is that? In my opinion the design makes for a better weapon than the Fairbairn Sykes: Easier to mass produce, stronger tip, slightly better cutting edge, better edge alignment when cutting thanks to handle shape, etc. In my view the design of the M42 is superior. Yet, it is the other knife that has survived even to modern days. The design of the FS was flawed from the start, in my opinion. And the fact that it changed several times throughout the war and then the Applegate-Fairbairn was created seem to support that opinion. Is it because of the association with the commandos? Is it because the M42 was a weapon of the enemy from our perspective? That last one is unlikely because of how popular and sought after are the H. Youth fahrtenmesser...

5Akq50I.jpeg


What do you think caused that great design to almost fade into oblivion? Do you agree with my assessment of the Fairbairn Sykes?

I recently got a copy of the book Deutsche Kampfmesser 1914-1917 by Christian Méry. There is a better version I'm trying to get which covers the period up until 1945. Honestly? From what I've seen the Germans could have been the "bad guys" in both wars but IMO they have the better knives. 🤷🏼‍♂️

nguqasF.jpeg
Click to expand...
100 percent agree.
Absolutely love this and I have few Fairbairn Sykes too. I like them all but the M42 is clearly superior due to its versatility whereas the FS dagger was much hated for the lack of practicality in the field i.e. tip breaking pff was extremely common.It's a very specialised tool hence its limitations.
M42 its better at everything , looks badass , love the blade and also ' it will kill ' , do you know what I mean ? :)
 
hank_rearden said:
And the WW1 Arditi knife is even more grunt-like. Unlike the FS, it has the elan of bringing-a-knife-to-a-gunfight and coming out on top (a bit like the kuhkri.)

No picture of an actual Arditi knife available.

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OMG Arditi were much feared , quite ' secretive too ' a bit like Rhodesian special forces operators.
 
Legendary_Jarl said:
The design of the FS was flawed from the start
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Yeah. Handle cross sections on a knife should be somewhere between oval and rectangular. The dainty round handle on the FS would be better on a pencil.
 
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