Fallkniven 3g steel report, demystifying the mystic

[DeadboxHero]

I was disappointed when researching about this steel.

I couldn't find any objective information from experienced users

How does it perform?

What does it compare too?

Is it really that hard to sharpen?

What's its application?

The price is very high, the available knives in this steel are low.

Fallkniven boasts about it on their website.

I've always been very skeptical of claims from a manufacturer
But I've really been impressed with their other steel offerings.

So a level of trust has been established with Fallkniven.







Last year I bought my life long best friend the best small stainless fixed I could think of.

A Fallkniven F1 in 3g.

The initial edge was one the sharpest fixed blade edges I had seen

This surprised me because most every survival knife I had ever bought didn't have a great edge from the factory.

Except the Bark River Gunny Elmax.

It came with a flat grind with a acute convex starting just above the Lamination.

The apex was at the microbevel.

It was so aggressive it could chest lever cut through a two finger thick piece of pine with bone chilling authority.

We noticed it took a light hand when carving feathers because the knife wanted to dig into the wood due to the acute geometry and aggressive bite from the carbide rich steel.

Very impressive.

Monthes later we went on a wilderness hike and camp.



I'm unaware of how it happened but my buddy showed me his edge after our actively.



There were small micro chips on the microbevel

They look much bigger in this picture.

in real life they are the size of the point on a sewing machine needle


My friend is quite an experienced user. His edge never touches the ground when batoning as well as only appropriate mediums are cut.

I'm puzzled by the chips, did he hit a knot in the wood?

It's was the stock geometry and the knife had not been sharpened in months.

Who knows?

It's too soon to judge.



So it was time to hit the stones.

We hung out yesterday and I gave him a few pointer on my waterstones.
It took two hours to complete but mostly due to instructions and small talk and laughter.

Naniwa 400 grit

3g was no match for this splash and go magnesia bonded ceramic abrasive stone. My friend was able to repair, reprofile and sharpen this blade in moments.
King 1000 grit

The king has trouble with wear resistant steel in general. But is used to work out up the finish for higher grit.
We moved on when the finish was a uniform "misty" look
Suehiro 3000 grit

This has to be the greatest budget stone ever

"Whoa!"

He noticed like the Naniwa it cut the steel fast but also polished to a hazy mirror.


King 6000 grit

Again not a great cutter but a true mirror was achieved.

The end results were a mirror polished edge but it wasn't quite as sharp as it could have been

There were some apex and burr removing issues that I solve for my buddy with a few edge leading passes on the stone with varying degrees of pressure as well as stroping on Flitz Metal polish at a very slight higher angle with careful precision as not to deform the apex beneth the burr.

Hair popping sharp!

We played with the cbn strops and Bark River compounds until it could tree top hair.

It wasn't until I cut a regular piece of white printer paper that I realized how sharp it got.

It made the sound of rubbing a hand on a silk sheet while cutting.

The hair on my neck stood up with excitement.

I sharpen a lot of knives

This edge was definitely in the top tier

It takes a better polish and sharpens faster then S30v.

Now that I've made some observations

Let's discuss in detail 3g and how it compares to other steel on the market.

The Steel is made by Takefu Metals in Japan.

There not the biggest steel mill in Japan but they are the creators of one of the most prominent high end stainless steels in the world, V Kin (Gold) Ten or VG10.

3g is a not the name of the steel used rather it's a proprietary Laminate with two softer pieces of vg2( a low carbon stainless much like 420j2) for added ductility and strength

The core is listed on the Takefu site under "Super G2"
Also known as Super Gold powder steel (SGPS, or SG2)

To add to the high cost, the steel is actually devolped by the hugh Kobelco Steel company of Japan. It's under the name "R2"

According to zknives,
It's supplied to Takefu Metals and sold under the name "SG2"

Here's the composition.



Recognize anything?



The composition is actually very similar to S30v.

Yet it works differently.

It has the same carbon but the vanadium is lower.

Vanadium is a very good carbide former.

If you know nothing else and are looking for high amoints of wear resistance Vanadium is key. (In small amounts it's a grain refiner though)

It's seriously the biggest leading factor in wear resistance which contributes to edge holding but is not the sole component.

3g has more molybdenum however which is another carbide former it makes softer carbides that are easier to sharpen.

Also 3g has a higher amount of chromium.

These leads me to what sets 3g apart from S30v it has a higher working hardness of 62-64hrc versus S30v at 59-60 hrc
Yet it takes a more polished edge and sharpens faster then S30v.
This has its merits especially for a steel made for a different knife culture that sharpens on waterstones, but I believe S30v is still the all around champ when it comes to wear resistance and other factors we will discuss in even more detail.

Also a disclaimer about discussing the mechanisms of steel ingredients

It's really speculation to a degree.

There is so much synergy between how the alloys behave with each other let alone various heat treatments and underlying structures that form that a true understanding is out of my grasp.

Especially without a few Master degrees with a PhD in metallurgy with specific knowledge of how to apply it to knives

I'm just a caveman just like you guys.

I just like sharp pointy things

 

[jfk1110]

I found 3g pretty impressive. I had the PHK & loved it. Now the only knife I own with it is the juni. I edc it every day and it holds a fantastic edge for an obscene length of time. I think it's great for edc chores. It just stays sharp on and on and on. It's definitely easier to keep it sharp with consistent maintenance as opposed to letting it get dull and then trying to bring it back. I'm a fan, but I like Lam CoS better. I think the Lam CoS takes a sharper edge and is easier to achieve said edge.

 

[rcb2000]

Great post as usual, thanks for the info :thumbup:

 

[DeadboxHero]

I found 3g pretty impressive. I had the PHK & loved it. Now the only knife I own with it is the juni. I edc it every day and it holds a fantastic edge for an obscene length of time. I think it's great for edc chores. It just stays sharp on and on and on. It's definitely easier to keep it sharp with consistent maintenance as opposed to letting it get dull and then trying to bring it back. I'm a fan, but I like Lam CoS better. I think the Lam CoS takes a sharper edge and is easier to achieve said edge.

Cos definitely didn't need as much attention to detail to get the same amount of sharpeness but once 3G got there my eyes watered, it was just so beautiful (sniffle)

Great post as usual, thanks for the info :thumbup:

Glad my ramblings could help, thanks rcb

 

[The Hobbiest]

What a great post. I actually used to work in a foundry running the spectrometer, which would analyze the chemical compositions of the alloys we were creating (mostly 400 and 300 series stainless). 300 series stainless steels (304,316 were most common) stays stainless on the outside in weather (scratches will rust) but has a bit of softness or give to it. It's used for metal gaskets in oil refinery pipping among other things. 400 series is generally higher in carbon, chromium, and silicon and will rust on the outside facing easier (still stainless throughout though). Its a bit stiffer usually and will hold its shape better but is more likely to snap, crack, or break rather than dent like 300 series. Most of the times when the elemental ingredient values had a range we would shoot for the middle values (would be 15% chrome in this case unless asked specifically otherwise) but with expensive metals like Molybdenum (25$ a pound at the time) I wouldn't be surprised if they hung around the lower value which is slightly above normal 316 levels. 3G steel looks like a 316 base (that explains the outside stainless appearance) with added carbon and vanadium for stiffness and edge retention and a little extra moly for the corrosion resistance.

 

[DeadboxHero]

What a great post. I actually used to work in a foundry running the spectrometer, which would analyze the chemical compositions of the alloys we were creating (mostly 400 and 300 series stainless). 300 series stainless steels (304,316 were most common) stays stainless on the outside in weather (scratches will rust) but has a bit of softness or give to it. It's used for metal gaskets in oil refinery pipping among other things. 400 series is generally higher in carbon, chromium, and silicon and will rust on the outside facing easier (still stainless throughout though). Its a bit stiffer usually and will hold its shape better but is more likely to snap, crack, or break rather than dent like 300 series. Most of the times when the elemental ingredient values had a range we would shoot for the middle values (would be 15% chrome in this case unless asked specifically otherwise) but with expensive metals like Molybdenum (25$ a pound at the time) I wouldn't be surprised if they hung around the lower value which is slightly above normal 316 levels. 3G steel looks like a 316 base (that explains the outside stainless appearance) with added carbon and vanadium for stiffness and edge retention and a little extra moly for the corrosion resistance.

Very cool man, thanks for sharing, be careful the rabbit hole gets deeper!

 

[The Hobbiest]

Yeah, i'm finding out the hard way. After years of being happy with just my pocket folder I got my eyes blown wide open when I decided to buy my brother, who is fond of 3-5 day kayaking/camping trips, a really nice survival knife. Some research led me in the direction of Fallkniven and now he is the owner of an A1. This of course led me to believe I need my own survival knife (who doesn't) and I dove into more research eventually ending up with my first Busse. Sadly, I was not aware of the Pro series Fallkniven has just released or I (or my bro) might have ended up with the A1 Pro but I feel we are both more than well off with what we have now.

 

[mete]

With many of these special steel knives and with practical production 'happenings' I wonder if the factory sharpening was the problem. Why did his chip and yours didn't ? Overdoing grinding has spoiled many a good blade . A careful sharpening by hand removes grinding damage ,permits you to form the edge you prefer.
It's not enough to have the degree, it's important to understand the whole process in the real world !!

 

[brownshoe]

With many of these special steel knives and with practical production 'happenings' I wonder if the factory sharpening was the problem. Why did his chip and yours didn't ? Overdoing grinding has spoiled many a good blade . A careful sharpening by hand removes grinding damage ,permits you to form the edge you prefer.
It's not enough to have the degree, it's important to understand the whole process in the real world !!

That's could be why Randall still puts their final edge on by hand using a stone.

 

[Mikael W]

I was disappointed when researching about this steel.

I couldn't find any objective information from experienced users

How does it perform?

What does it compare too?

Is it really that hard to sharpen?

What's its application?

The price is very high, the available knives in this steel are low.

Fallkniven boasts about it on their website.

I've always been very skeptical of claims from a manufacturer
But I've really been impressed with their other steel offerings.

So a level of trust has been established with Fallkniven.







Last year I bought my life long best friend the best small stainless fixed I could think of.

A Fallkniven F1 in 3g.

The initial edge was one the sharpest fixed blade edges I had seen

This surprised me because most every survival knife I had ever bought didn't have a great edge from the factory.

Except the Bark River Gunny Elmax.

It came with a flat grind with a acute convex starting just above the Lamination.

The apex was at the microbevel.

It was so aggressive it could chest lever cut through a two finger thick piece of pine with bone chilling authority.

We noticed it took a light hand when carving feathers because the knife wanted to dig into the wood due to the acute geometry and aggressive bite from the carbide rich steel.

Very impressive.

Monthes later we went on a wilderness hike and camp.



I'm unaware of how it happened but my buddy showed me his edge after our actively.



There were small micro chips on the microbevel

They look much bigger in this picture.

in real life they are the size of the point on a sewing machine needle


My friend is quite an experienced user. His edge never touches the ground when batoning as well as only appropriate mediums are cut.

I'm puzzled by the chips, did he hit a knot in the wood?

It's was the stock geometry and the knife had not been sharpened in months.

Who knows?

It's too soon to judge.



So it was time to hit the stones.

We hung out yesterday and I gave him a few pointer on my waterstones.
It took two hours to complete but mostly due to instructions and small talk and laughter.

Naniwa 400 grit

3g was no match for this splash and go magnesia bonded ceramic abrasive stone. My friend was able to repair, reprofile and sharpen this blade in moments.
King 1000 grit

The king has trouble with wear resistant steel in general. But is used to work out up the finish for higher grit.
We moved on when the finish was a uniform "misty" look
Suehiro 3000 grit

This has to be the greatest budget stone ever

"Whoa!"

He noticed like the Naniwa it cut the steel fast but also polished to a hazy mirror.


King 6000 grit

Again not a great cutter but a true mirror was achieved.

The end results were a mirror polished edge but it wasn't quite as sharp as it could have been

There were some apex and burr removing issues that I solve for my buddy with a few edge leading passes on the stone with varying degrees of pressure as well as stroping on Flitz Metal polish at a very slight higher angle with careful precision as not to deform the apex beneth the burr.

Hair popping sharp!

We played with the cbn strops and Bark River compounds until it could tree top hair.

It wasn't until I cut a regular piece of white printer paper that I realized how sharp it got.

It made the sound of rubbing a hand on a silk sheet while cutting.

The hair on my neck stood up with excitement.

I sharpen a lot of knives

This edge was definitely in the top tier

It takes a better polish and sharpens faster then S30v.

Now that I've made some observations

Let's discuss in detail 3g and how it compares to other steel on the market.

The Steel is made by Takefu Metals in Japan.

There not the biggest steel mill in Japan but they are the creators of one of the most prominent high end stainless steels in the world, V Kin (Gold) Ten or VG10.

3g is a not the name of the steel used rather it's a proprietary Laminate with two softer pieces of vg2( a low carbon stainless much like 420j2) for added ductility and strength

The core is listed on the Takefu site under "Super G2"
Also known as Super Gold powder steel (SGPS, or SG2)

To add to the high cost, the steel is actually devolped by the hugh Kobelco Steel company of Japan. It's under the name "R2"

According to zknives,
It's supplied to Takefu Metals and sold under the name "SG2"

Here's the composition.



Recognize anything?



The composition is actually very similar to S30v.

Yet it works differently.

It has the same carbon but the vanadium is lower.

Vanadium is a very good carbide former.

If you know nothing else and are looking for high amoints of wear resistance Vanadium is key. (In small amounts it's a grain refiner though)

It's seriously the biggest leading factor in wear resistance which contributes to edge holding but is not the sole component.

3g has more molybdenum however which is another carbide former it makes softer carbides that are easier to sharpen.

Also 3g has a higher amount of chromium.

These leads me to what sets 3g apart from S30v it has a higher working hardness of 62-64hrc versus S30v at 59-60 hrc
Yet it takes a more polished edge and sharpens faster then S30v.
This has its merits especially for a steel made for a different knife culture that sharpens on waterstones, but I believe S30v is still the all around champ when it comes to wear resistance and other factors we will discuss in even more detail.

Also a disclaimer about discussing the mechanisms of steel ingredients

It's really speculation to a degree.

There is so much synergy between how the alloys behave with each other let alone various heat treatments and underlying structures that form that a true understanding is out of my grasp.

Especially without a few Master degrees with a PhD in metallurgy with specific knowledge of how to apply it to knives

I'm just a caveman just like you guys.

I just like sharp pointy things

:thumbup: From one caveman to another:

I'm with You here, waterstones and honing with chromepolish works perfect on the F1 3G!
By using the DC stones together with water, they also work very good as compact waterstones.
The discontinued DC stones separated easily in water, as the glue was watersoluble.
This has changed with the newer DC/CC stones and they are very good pocket sharpeners at an attractive quote, compared with real waterstones.

The F1 3G is one of my favorite users due to the robust geometry.
With robust I mean compared to the thinner and slicier TK1/TK2.
By setting the edge for the materials I cut, the F1 3G has both toughness and bites well into wood.
The more polished the edge gets, the less it binds into wood and thick cardboard.

The Takefu SGPS core is one of my absolute favorites among the powdersteels, but I'm also positive to S30V.
Both hold an edge for a very long time in practical use.

Bottomline is as always, if the user knows how to set an edge, the knife will perform very well!



Regards
Mikael

 

[Dangerously]

I always like steel discussions that have real world use mixed in. You not only have to match a steel to the edge thickness and grind to understand how it performs, but also to its intended use and most of all: the owner's ability to sharpen. On paper, Fallknivens steel choices don't look like they're exceptional. Yet owners report great results in real use.

This is where many reviews do nothing for me, because they don't show a full cycle of use, dulling, maintenance, and use again. Thanks DeadboxHero.

 

[DeadboxHero]

Yeah, i'm finding out the hard way. After years of being happy with just my pocket folder I got my eyes blown wide open when I decided to buy my brother, who is fond of 3-5 day kayaking/camping trips, a really nice survival knife. Some research led me in the direction of Fallkniven and now he is the owner of an A1. This of course led me to believe I need my own survival knife (who doesn't) and I dove into more research eventually ending up with my first Busse. Sadly, I was not aware of the Pro series Fallkniven has just released or I (or my bro) might have ended up with the A1 Pro but I feel we are both more than well off with what we have now.

The Pro is just a more refined version with a few more "goodies"

Honestly, chasing all the best knives in the fancy steels is a "red herring"
If you get too caught up in it. You won't appreciate what you have, always listing for the next knife (God help me!)

You and your bro should be good to go

With many of these special steel knives and with practical production 'happenings' I wonder if the factory sharpening was the problem. Why did his chip and yours didn't ? Overdoing grinding has spoiled many a good blade . A careful sharpening by hand removes grinding damage ,permits you to form the edge you prefer.
It's not enough to have the degree, it's important to understand the whole process in the real world !!

:thumbup:

:thumbup: From one caveman to another:

I'm with You here, waterstones and honing with chromepolish works perfect on the F1 3G!
By using the DC stones together with water, they also work very good as compact waterstones.
The discontinued DC stones separated easily in water, as the glue was watersoluble.
This has changed with the newer DC/CC stones and they are very good pocket sharpeners at an attractive quote, compared with real waterstones.

The F1 3G is one of my favorite users due to the robust geometry.
With robust I mean compared to the thinner and slicier TK1/TK2.
By setting the edge for the materials I cut, the F1 3G has both toughness and bites well into wood.
The more polished the edge gets, the less it binds into wood and thick cardboard.

The Takefu SGPS core is one of my absolute favorites among the powdersteels, but I'm also positive to S30V.
Both hold an edge for a very long time in practical use.

Bottomline is as always, if the user knows how to set an edge, the knife will perform very well!



Regards
Mikael

It a wonderful steel.
If you love 3G,
You have got to try Bark Rivers Elmax.

I always like steel discussions that have real world use mixed in. You not only have to match a steel to the edge thickness and grind to understand how it performs, but also to its intended use and most of all: the owner's ability to sharpen. On paper, Fallknivens steel choices don't look like they're exceptional. Yet owners report great results in real use.

This is where many reviews do nothing for me, because they don't show a full cycle of use, dulling, maintenance, and use again. Thanks DeadboxHero.

These reviews are for people like us that are genuinely curious and want to know how these knives perform.

I love reading reviews as much as you guys.


Thanks man.

 

[Mikael W]

It a wonderful steel.
If you love 3G,
You have got to try Bark Rivers Elmax.

Yes, I'm interested in the new Snowy River, but instead of getting that Elmax knife, I saved for more cash and got the Bark River Custom 7" Bowie.
No regrets!
There are many powdersteels I like, but primarily I buy the knife before the steel, provided the heat-treatment and geometry are good.

Yesterday I got home with a new Cartopper boat for fishing and camping.
So there will not be much room for more new knives this year.
Instead I will give more time to the F1 Pro and the 7" Bowie.

The F1 Pro continues to impress!
Mainly in how easy it is to restore the edge after a ding.
I have started to use the Zytelsheath instead of the F1 foldover leathersheath.
So far it rides better on the belt, than the leathersheath and it also sways away more easy.
It looks ugly, but the functionality is definitely there!


Regards
Mikael

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Thanks for taking the time to write all that up, man! Very interesting and informative. I'm hoping Spyderco someday manages to yet the Super Gold Endura/Delica/Stretch run back together at a reasonable price.

 

[vilePossum]

thank you for your write up. been looking into the fällkniven lineup and always wondered about the 3g.

 

[DeadboxHero]

Yes, I'm interested in the new Snowy River, but instead of getting that Elmax knife, I saved for more cash and got the Bark River Custom 7" Bowie.
No regrets!
There are many powdersteels I like, but primarily I buy the knife before the steel, provided the heat-treatment and geometry are good.

Yesterday I got home with a new Cartopper boat for fishing and camping.
So there will not be much room for more new knives this year.
Instead I will give more time to the F1 Pro and the 7" Bowie.

The F1 Pro continues to impress!
Mainly in how easy it is to restore the edge after a ding.
I have started to use the Zytelsheath instead of the F1 foldover leathersheath.
So far it rides better on the belt, than the leathersheath and it also sways away more easy.
It looks ugly, but the functionality is definitely there!


Regards
Mikael

Haha I was drooling over those bowies when they came out so beautiful!

I think you have a great set up for the year

Thanks for taking the time to write all that up, man! Very interesting and informative. I'm hoping Spyderco someday manages to yet the Super Gold Endura/Delica/Stretch run back together at a reasonable price.

Thank bro

I hope so too.

I was deeply saddened when Sal announced that the Sprint run was priced out of the market due to the minimum purchase amount.

Maybe one day, or perhaps Cobalt Special thenstead

thank you for your write up. been looking into the fällkniven lineup and always wondered about the 3g.

Thanks man, my treat

 

[Noddy]

Thanks for this great post, Dead

I have the PHK in my sights right this minute

 

[palonej]

Excellent write up DBH!! Very enjoyable read and your passion is easily felt!
Joe

 

[mete]

I know I mentioned this somewhere before but -- The TK-1 I got was poorly balanced as the full length, width ,thickness tang put the balance point too far back -butt heavy. About my first use , on a deer ! Had that corrected so I then I could test the steel ! Now my favorite hunting knife. 3G ? Excellent steel !!

 

[snapshot2017]

A really great post and it confirmed that my next stone was going to be the Naniwa 400.