Fallknven F1/A1 steel: VG10 vs 3G

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evert67

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Oct 22, 2011
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I am in the market for a Fallkniven F1. I'm doubting between the version in VG10 and the one in 3G steel. (The Pro version is not an option to me.)

I have an A1 in VG10 steel. I actually quite like it. It is is bit chippy sometimes and takes a while to sharpen, but its edge retention is quite good for VG10.

Now I read a good thread about the Fallkniven 3G steel (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1379848-Fallkniven-3g-steel-report-demystifying-the-mystic?highlight=fallkniven+f1), which appears to be SG2/R2, and the review was quite favourable. But the 3G steel also seems a bit chippy, which I read in other reports as well. Its edge retention is probably better than that of the VG10, but as I wrote, I have little complaints about that. And I wonder whether the 3G steel is worth the additional price.

So I wonder if there are people who have used both steels and can tell me more about it. What would you choose?
 
Worth ? that's up to you But having kives of both steels I can say the differences are very noticeable . It should be because 3G is powder metal with more alloying elements . I haven't noticed chipping ,though that's influenced by cutting edge angle and othe user things. Significant wear resistance improvement over VG-10. My TK-1 with 3G is my favorite hunting knive ,significantly better than my S-1 with VG-10. Sharpening of the powder metal blades is easier with diamond sharpeners .
 
Mete knows what he's talking about, as he is a metallurgist.

I use both VG-10 and 3G in my two F1's and I have no complaints on the steels, but as I and others have said in the linked threads, I don't care much for factory edges.
With the edges reset by handsharpening, both steels do the job without chipping!

I like VG-10 for the reasonable edgeholding and ease of sharpening.
3G holds an edge longer, but takes a little longer to resharpen.
Diamonds will help.

If You do a lot of dirty or gritty work, go with VG-10.
If You do more detailed work in wood, go with 3G, but honestly both are really good steels.


Regards
Mikael
 
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You're not going to find two better responses to your question then these two......not only honest, they're also real use
 
mete said:
Worth ? that's up to you But having kives of both steels I can say the differences are very noticeable . It should be because 3G is powder metal with more alloying elements . I haven't noticed chipping ,though that's influenced by cutting edge angle and othe user things. Significant wear resistance improvement over VG-10. My TK-1 with 3G is my favorite hunting knive ,significantly better than my S-1 with VG-10. Sharpening of the powder metal blades is easier with diamond sharpeners .
Click to expand...

On a slight tangent, do you think 3G would be up to bushcraft /carving hardwoods? I am also considering my options but my main use would be general camping use rather than hunting and our hardwoods can be a bit rough on knives.
 
Chris Larrikin said:
On a slight tangent, do you think 3G would be up to bushcraft /carving hardwoods? I am also considering my options but my main use would be general camping use rather than hunting and our hardwoods can be a bit rough on knives.
Click to expand...


3G has been on longterm tests by a certain Aussie Bushcrafter.
It passed the tests on Your native hardwoods.
The knife was a TK2.

attachment.php



TK2 033.jpg



Regards
Mikael
 
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Wondering he same thing, I dipped my toe into Fallkniven by getting the cheaper VG10 F1. I told myself that if it dulled too quickly, I'd upgrade to 3G. Well, since I only go on 1-2 day trips and carry a DC4 with me for touch-ups, I haven't yet felt the need for a 3G blade for camping and wood carving.

26064312472_0204f6acf1_c.jpg
 
I have a couple F1's, an S1, and an H1, all in VG10. I bought them all one at a time a few years apart and each time I had the 3G vs VG10 debate. Every time I thought back to the use each VG10 model was put through and realized I simply never needed a more wear resistant steel. My H1 easily processes an entire Whitetail Deer (gutting, splitting breastbone and pelvis, skinning, deboning, and final meat prep) without any noticeable loss of sharpness. It is amazingly sharp after hours of constant use and surprises me every time.

I have other fizzes blades with better steel and a lot with straight 1095 and I find the edge geometry to be far more important than the steel (assuming it's at least a decent cutlery steel with a correct heat treat).

Bottom line: in my totally arbitrary opinion VG10 has something like 90% of the same properties as my super powder steel knives and an almost doubling in cost is not worth that last 10%.

Keep in mind also that in laboratory wear resistance 3G may cut twice as long as VG10... But in the real world you run into a lot of super hard things (dirt, stones, glass fiber in plastic parts like sheaths, improper angle/pressure during stropping, etc.) that causes near equal deformation of a knife edge. In the real world being careful when you cut can mean more than standard vs. super steel.
 
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Curious as to why no PRO. I find the lam cos steel easy to sharpen, just as if not easier than vg 10. It holds its edge almost as long as 3g & is a little less costly. I think any would work well for you, no matter which you choose.
 
Buy the 3G for the sharpness because Fällkniven disappoints on the toughness.
 
DPC said:
Buy the 3G for the sharpness because Fällkniven disappoints on the toughness.
Click to expand...

Not to my personal experiences, but maybe You can tell us in what way, Your Fällkniven has disappointed You regarding toughness?



Regards
Mikael
 
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Mikael W said:
Not to my personal experiences, but maybe You can tell us in what way, Your Fällkniven has disappointed You regarding toughness?



Regards
Mikael
Click to expand...

Yes. Maybe my fault for having such high expectations. Lateral toughness and tip strength are great. Edge retention not so much for the intended use of the knife (A1).

Nowadays I'd prefer a 3G Fällkniven just for the sharpness and edge retention in light cutting.

No problems with the G1 though.
 
evert67 said:
I am in the market for a Fallkniven F1. I'm doubting between the version in VG10 and the one in 3G steel. (The Pro version is not an option to me.)

I have an A1 in VG10 steel. I actually quite like it. It is is bit chippy sometimes and takes a while to sharpen, but its edge retention is quite good for VG10.

Now I read a good thread about the Fallkniven 3G steel (http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1379848-Fallkniven-3g-steel-report-demystifying-the-mystic?highlight=fallkniven+f1), which appears to be SG2/R2, and the review was quite favourable. But the 3G steel also seems a bit chippy, which I read in other reports as well. Its edge retention is probably better than that of the VG10, but as I wrote, I have little complaints about that. And I wonder whether the 3G steel is worth the additional price.

So I wonder if there are people who have used both steels and can tell me more about it. What would you choose?
Click to expand...

3g only has advantages for a more discerning user.

It's more specialized, your removing the versatility of vg10 and enhancing wear resistance at a cost.

Here's an analogy,
A Ferrari is a sweet car but it takes special care.

I personally don't care about cars so I wouldn't be that stoked about the extra maintaince and gas mileage on a Ferrari nor would I even care about the enhanced speed driving the speed limit everywhere.

For me it would just be a waste.

Why own a Ferrari if I just commute to work?




Every steel has advantages and disadvantages period.

Depending on how and who's it's used by its the clear choice.

I don't think it would be worth your money. Too specialized.

If your having chipping and sharpening issues with vg10, 3g would simply magnify the issue.
 
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I really can't say there's that much difference between my VG10 F1 and 3G F1 only because of how infrequently I use them.
So in a practical sense, for the field, I have to agree that it's mostly for bragging rights and feeding the "better steel" urge.
However, there is no doubt in my mind as to the 3G having longer edge retention because I use my kitchen knives far more
frequently and my two main knives are VG10 and SG2. I find myself sharpening my VG10 one far more frequently.
 
DPC said:
Yes. Maybe my fault for having such high expectations. Lateral toughness and tip strength are great. Edge retention not so much for the intended use of the knife (A1).

Nowadays I'd prefer a 3G Fällkniven just for the sharpness and edge retention in light cutting.

No problems with the G1 though.
Click to expand...

Ok, I don't have the A1, but I have the A2 and the NL2.
My son uses the A1 and we discuss our experiences with our knives from time to time.
The NL2 has the original edge since 2007, just maintained to be kept sharp.
The A1 and the A2 has got new personal edges after self inflicted damages.
The A1 had a stone contact and the A2 cut through a hot wire by my mistake.
No problems with the edgeretention after resetting the edges to our standards!

We baton, split and chop wood with our knives and the NL 2 has seen hours of continous chopping of Maple.
No problems with edgeretention at all!

As You are a user of 3G, I assume You can sharpen Your knife.
Maybe a resetting of the edge in order to get past the factory edge, will improve the performance of Your A1, right?



Regards
Mikael
 
Factory edges .For knives in general , no specific brand here. When you buy a knife it's yours. You may then sharpen to your needs as far as edge shape.Sharpening will also remove damaged HT areas especially at the tip !!. Yes it happens . Learn to use the blade -no abuse ! I was wood carving at 7 years old mostly self taught, even with hardwood like hard maple . Many mistakes were made by me and other kids.I learned that clean cuts are the way. Not just a poor cut which is finished by prying out the piece. That makes for a terrible carving and damage to the edge ! My fathers comments were =use the tool properly,
respect the tool and it will work with you !
In those days I was wishing for a steel that would last longer between sharpening .Years later as a metallurgist I realized yes I can have that !!
 
Macchina said:
I have a couple F1's, an S1, and an H1, all in VG10. I bought them all one at a time a few years apart and each time I had the 3G vs VG10 debate. Every time I thought back to the use each VG10 model was put through and realized I simply never needed a more wear resistant steel. My H1 easily processes an entire Whitetail Deer (gutting, splitting breastbone and pelvis, skinning, deboning, and final meat prep) without any noticeable loss of sharpness. It is amazingly sharp after hours of constant use and surprises me every time.

I have other fizzes blades with better steel and a lot with straight 1095 and I find the edge geometry to be far more important than the steel (assuming it's at least a decent cutlery steel with a correct heat treat).

Bottom line: in my totally arbitrary opinion VG10 has something like 90% of the same properties as my super powder steel knives and an almost doubling in cost is not worth that last 10%.

Keep in mind also that in laboratory wear resistance 3G may cut twice as long as VG10... But in the real world you run into a lot of super hard things (dirt, stones, glass fiber in plastic parts like sheaths, improper angle/pressure during stropping, etc.) that causes near equal deformation of a knife edge. In the real world being careful when you cut can mean more than standard vs. super steel.
Click to expand...

Good post! :thumbup:


Regards
Mikael
 
mete said:
Factory edges .For knives in general , no specific brand here. When you buy a knife it's yours. You may then sharpen to your needs as far as edge shape.Sharpening will also remove damaged HT areas especially at the tip !!. Yes it happens . Learn to use the blade -no abuse ! I was wood carving at 7 years old mostly self taught, even with hardwood like hard maple . Many mistakes were made by me and other kids.I learned that clean cuts are the way. Not just a poor cut which is finished by prying out the piece. That makes for a terrible carving and damage to the edge ! My fathers comments were =use the tool properly,
respect the tool and it will work with you !
In those days I was wishing for a steel that would last longer between sharpening .Years later as a metallurgist I realized yes I can have that !!
Click to expand...


I know we have differrent opinions when it comes to batoning.
A knife sure can break during batoning, especially if the wrong technique is used.
I started my learning curve around the same age as You did, but it was my grandparents who teached me and not my father.
They both used the right tool for the job, axes, saws & moraknives but they also had a custom sharpened steelbar for batoning firewood.
I often saw it in use and also used it myself.

In my early teens I bought my first large knife with a 7 mm spine.
I did abuse that knife bigtime, as teens sometimes do but I never broke the blade.
The handle broke many times and so did the guard, but I always managed to repair them.
The knife is still around and in one piece, but today I prefer the better steels offered nowadays.

I still baton but has yet to brake a knife when batoning.




Regards
Mikael
 
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