[Fantasy knife] 420j2 steel question

R

ravicore

Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
2
Greetings,

currently waiting for this fantasy dagger "Umethar, talisman of the Anath" and was wondering if anyone could answer few questions for me regarding the 420j2 steel. The blade specs say:

# Overall Length: 17-1/16"
# Blade Length: 10-3/8"
# Blade Thickness: 1/8"
# Blade Material: 420 J2 stainless steel, double-edged, mirror-polished

Picture: http://www.lalama.eu/images/large/united/kr-umethar_LRG.jpg

Can a knife like that (when sharpened, 100% condition) cut through few layers of clothes including a thick jacket with same or similar "ease" as a blade made of high quality steel would? Assuming that both have the same shape. Or is this kind of steel really so bad, that it would like bend, if the stab wasnt done under perfect angle... (Im aware of the fact that these fantasy weapons are made for hanging on a wall and iam not going to use it to cut thru people's cloths "with style", its just for fun purposes, but i want to make sure its not a blade made of butter and can actually cut some too). Thanks if you decide to share some experience with this kind of steel.
 
dude, 420's suck my 710's liners are made out of 420hj. It'll cut, but not for very long. Most knives I've bought with 420hj are 5-10 bucks. Edge durability is sub-standard too. But, if you're just gonna hang it on the wall, it shouldn't corrode, due to the super-high chromium content.
 
Since the knife design is completely useless, the steel chemistry is probably irrelevant. :D

Seriously though, a 420 J2 can probably cut layers of soft material as well as a high-end steel, but it'll need resharpening after each cut to maintain a functional edge.

For use on harder materials the knife could break easily due to poor steel (and an obviously flawed blade design), especially if combined with a cheap heat-treat process. But the most likely damage will be bending and dinging at every impact due to the steel's softness (and the knife's ridiculous design).
 
I don't know the difference between different kinds of 420 but in general they don't keep an edge very long.
Therefore, over here on bladeforums people tend to dismiss knives with 420 blades as inferior. Except, and this always amused me, when the talk is about the venerable Buck 110 design. The 110 uses a 420HC blade yet it is often recommended, and only rarely people question the steel of the 110.
 
I don't know the difference between different kinds of 420 but in general they don't keep an edge very long.
Therefore, over here on bladeforums people tend to dismiss knives with 420 blades as inferior.
Click to expand...
420J2 is significantly lower quality than 420HC, especially when the 420HC in question is Buck's.
 
420J2 is probably the lowest grade of stainless steel known to man, besides 410 used mostly for liners and frames. If it's ever used as a blade steel, depending on the company and purpose, for that steel you shouldn't be paying more than $20.00 for a knife.

From my own use and experience, here is a small made up chart of how your steel ranks among other stainless steels (these are all from personal use and please no steel wars on my top three choices).

S30V
VG-10
154CM, ATS-34 same chemistry just ones american and the other is japanese
440C, AUS-10
440B, AUS-8
420HC from Buck
440A, AUS-6
420
420J2 - the bottom of the barrel, lowest of the low, and should only ever be used as a liner unless you are planning on doing some salt water diving with it.

Don't get me wrong, all of the above will get a nice edge, but the lower you go the more often you will have to sharpen.
 
J's Knives-N-More said:
420J2 - the bottom of the barrel, lowest of the low, and should only ever be used as a liner unless you are planning on doing some salt water diving with it.
Click to expand...

It's not worth using for salt water diving, either. Not when there's choices like the H1 in Spyderco's aptly named Salt series of knives. ;-)
 
420J2 is the same stuff your forks and spoons are made out of. No joke.
 
Simple fact of the matter is, it's dangerous to do anything with that knife other than look at it. Put any kind of force on it while trying to stab through something and it's possible you'll injure yourself. These are not functional knives. They were not designed to be used and thus should not be used, for anything at all other than display.
 
> 420J2 is significantly lower quality than 420HC, especially when the 420HC in question is Buck's.

Yes, I know, but it's still pretty low-end compared to today's steels, and yet nobody dismisses the Buck 110 for that reason. Nostalgia?
 
Thanks alot for the replies guys, thats enough answers for me.

One last question, is there any company that makes this kind of fantasy-ish (or just some wilder design different from your everyday) looking knives/blades using better steel that could be used to actually cut something without bending and blunting after one slash or stab?
 
Why would any maker waste good steel on an object designed to just look interesting? The way the edges and points are set up, that "blade" would be impractical in any steel. I'd say 420J2 or T-6 aluminum would be the ideal choices for it.
 
ravicore said:
Thanks alot for the replies guys, thats enough answers for me.

One last question, is there any company that makes this kind of fantasy-ish (or just some wilder design different from your everyday) looking knives/blades using better steel that could be used to actually cut something without bending and blunting after one slash or stab?
Click to expand...

Possibly, but it would probably cost you a fortune since good steels are so much more expensive than 420 J2 and also because 420 J2 is so much softer and easier to shape those crazy blade shapes out of than quality steels.

For an example, making that knife of yours in say D2 and then sharpening it would probably be a living hell.
 
Your knife's design and steel are perfect for what it was designed for.

A movie prop.

I agree with 420 being a "low end" steel. Specifically including the low end Buck knives. (Some newer Bucks are made of better steel)

Buck 110s in 420 HC are popular because they're CHEAP!
 
ravicore said:
Greetings,

currently waiting for this fantasy dagger "Umethar, talisman of the Anath" and was wondering if anyone could answer few questions for me regarding the 420j2 steel. The blade specs say:

# Overall Length: 17-1/16"
# Blade Length: 10-3/8"
# Blade Thickness: 1/8"
# Blade Material: 420 J2 stainless steel, double-edged, mirror-polished

Picture: http://www.lalama.eu/images/large/united/kr-umethar_LRG.jpg

Can a knife like that (when sharpened, 100% condition) cut through few layers of clothes including a thick jacket with same or similar "ease" as a blade made of high quality steel would? Assuming that both have the same shape. Or is this kind of steel really so bad, that it would like bend, if the stab wasnt done under perfect angle... (Im aware of the fact that these fantasy weapons are made for hanging on a wall and iam not going to use it to cut thru people's cloths "with style", its just for fun purposes, but i want to make sure its not a blade made of butter and can actually cut some too). Thanks if you decide to share some experience with this kind of steel.
Click to expand...

:cool: Spoken like a true Ninja.
 
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