fellow whittlers help, question about steels

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Nov 30, 1999
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Buzzbait, Coonskinner and some other guys out there share my love of slipjoints. I use mine for whittling mostly; chains, ball in cage and the like. I use carbon steel exclusively. Am I missing something? Are there any stainless steels that perform and sharpen like carbon steels for whittling? It needs to take a keen egde, hold it fairly well and sharpen easy. I mostly use harder woods when I whittle like walnut and cherry rather than basswood so that should also be a consideration. Case CV steel and whatever Boker uses are my Favorites so far. The stainless I have tried, Case Tru-sharp and whatever Buck uses have not done it for me. Any suggestions? What have I missed?
 
For a whittling knife since you are shaping and not doing rough stock removal, you are going for pure cutting ability and edge retention, durability requirements are very low. I would look at a very hard, high alloy fine grained stainless steel. I'd suggest dropping Phil Wilson an email and seeing if he would work something up in 420V at ~62-63 RC. With a very thin edge, and acute bevel, it will sharpen quite well. Use SiC paper on Mylar from Lee Valley and finish on CrO for the optimal push cutting ability. I have gottom back into whittling as of late, just using very rough stock now until my control goes up enough that I'll actually buy wood for a project.

-Cliff
 
This is an interesting question. I guess it depends on the kind of whittling knife you are going to be using. A pocketknife style with an appropriate stainless steel might make sense.

I have several custom carving knives made from O1. No, not stainless, but that is not a big problem. PJ Tomes and I have been discussing making some dedicated carving tools in 52100. I think that should strike about the best balance between edge holding (for super acute edges) and ease of resharpening.

I also like 420V, but it may to too tenacious an edge holder and will make resharpening difficult. Most serious wood carvers I know are not fond of any of the diamond stones. They take off too much metal too fast and do not produce a fine enough edge for push cutting through very hard woods.

I would recommend something like Sandvik 12C27 for this purpose. It will take a fantastic edge, and hold it long enough. Serious whittlers will probably be stropping every few minutes, and using a fine stone on their tools every few hours anyway, so I really can not see using a super edge holder like 420V for whittling. Of course, I much prefer to use small (1 to 2 inch blade) fixed blade knives with really long handles for leverage. You might like to try something like the wood carving knives from flexcraft at www.fallsrun.com or look at the Bo-T knives sold through www.woodcraft.com

Para
 
Paracelsus :


Most serious wood carvers I know are not fond of any of the diamond stones. They take off too much metal too fast and do not produce a fine enough edge for push cutting through very hard woods.

Yes, even the u-fine diamond grit, is still far rougher than optimal for push cutting. The abrasives I mentioned however are far finer, and will sharpen the edge geometry I mentioned very quickly. For normal work you use the CrO 4-5 times and then go back to the 5 micron SiC once that stops being productive and then back to the CrO.

In regards to grain sizes and fine edges, the CPM grades, at a very high hardness, and with a full cryo treatment, will have a very fine grain, easily better than all but a few of the conventional steels, the only thing better will be something very simple like 52100. The grain size of 10V for example is only 2-4 microns, far smaller than you might think given its alloy content.

In regards to stainless in general, no I would not use it in a whittler as there is no real advantage, however it I had to, 420V would be where I would go. In general the "ease of sharpening" issue is far more dependent on geometry than steel, and with the proper geometry and abrasive, it is just a matter of a few passes, since the steel will see little to no degredation.

Now if you stick to natural abrasives and work with high alloy very hard steels, sharpening will be problematic, but there is no reason to do so. I do agree that the benefits of ultra-high alloys are going to be minimal as you can't really refine the existing edge geometry as its pretty much optimal even with simple steels, and upkeep with those is just a routine few stropping passes.

Wood comes into play as well, there are some really abrasive hardwoods, I have not carved any amount of them though.

-Cliff
 
I believe that Boker used 1095 in its stockman models such as my worn-down King Kutter. The steel in that knife holds its edge extremely well; I suspect it is around R59-60. Don't know if Boker still makes them though. My current whittler is a Schrade Old Timer 80T, also in 1095; not as fine a knife as the Boker but a lot more affordable, and it also holds an excellent edge. My Buck Stockman doesn't hold an edge nearly as well as the Boker of Sh=chrade but will do for rough work. I have had good luck with a DMT fine hone, but often hone my carving tools on a big old black Arkansas about 14" long, which I inherited from a great-uncle. Talk about scary edges!
 
Well....... I'm a little more of a whittling cheapskate than Cliff and Paracelsus. You might want to try the 1095 carbon steel Old Timers and Camillus 1095 slipjoints. 1095 is a breath of fresh air when compared to the steel of most production slipjoints, IMHO.
 
I use two knives for whittling. One is a Ruple in ats34 and the other is a Roger's, also in ats 34. I've never really had to worry much about keeping them sharp.
 
How about D2? I have a Dozier coming in the future. I just may do some whittling with it.
 
I do a fair bit of carving, both chip carving and free standing stuff. I use knives specifically made for carving because of the sizes and shapes available and the handles are more comfortable than folders. All of them are carbon steel. I'm also fairly cheap, so I don't have any REALLY neat toys, I mean tools like paracelsus mentioned :) Hopefully someday.
I stick with swiss made, diobsud forge, and I even have a set of generic gouges made for woodcraft that work great for the price. I plan on getting some 01 and making a few of my own too.
But anyhow, if your just whittling you won't be using any gouges or chisels to rough stuff out. So you'll want a fairly heavy blade to do all the extra cutting and a finer blade for the detail work. Chances are you already know what you like, but I think you'd do well to look at a diobsud forge #007, and maybe a swiss made chip carving knife or two ( they actually make great detail carving/whittling knives if you pick the right profile, and they're only $10-$15 each) both are carbon steel, sharpen easily and hold an edge well with a little stropping here and there. The diobsud forge knife I have seems to hold its edge forever.
check out the swiss made knives here:
http://shop.woodcraft.com/woodcraft...T7S4W29HN0GH0LCXQVMEHPABXC&Gift=false&Giftid=

Can't find a link for the diobsud forge knives anymore. I htought that craftwoods had them :(
 
Whatever stainless Victorinox uses. The Pocket Pal is a great little whittler.

For carbon steel, 1095 is pretty hard to beat.

Paul
 
Thanks for all the replies. We are starting to get away from my question though. I am already in love with carbon steel, 1095 is fantastic. I want to know about stainless steels that perform similarly. I have a great assortment of Old Timers, Cases in CV, old Bokers and Camillus, I love them all. Am I missing any thing with the stainless steels? I use Flexcut carving knives when I am at home and I pack one or two of the above mentioned slipjoints in my pocket for the odd whittling moments that arise during the day. I always have a small project in my pocket or somwhere. I want to know if there are any stainless steels that will work as well.
 
You really can't beat carbon steel, but the upcoming D2 slipjoints from Queen might be something worthwhile to try.
 
The problem is finding the blade shapes that you want in the finer stainless alloys. I would pick VG10 or AUS-10 as very fine whittling alloys with some extra wear resistance, but easy sharpening. It isn't small enough for flexible whittling, but if you try a Spyderco Calypso Jr. Lightweight I bet you'll like the feel. We just have to talk Spyderco or Fallkniven or their Japanese contractors into making something like a stockman using VG10.

The next step down is AUS-8 and 12C27. If you find someone doing slipjoints in those give them a try.
 
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