Finnish/Earlier Scandi axes - Kirves


Seriously, that is a beautiful and mean looking little axe Bob!

How does it feel now that it's sharp? I would need to do some screen captures from the log home building video but that thing looks a lot like ones that a couple of the guys where using in it - on the shorter handles to notch out the logs. I think the first example I am picturing first shows up at exactly 4:20 in the video. Later as well but it shows a close up of the handle length, usage, and the bit.


BILLNAS Finland 21 by rjdankert, on Flickr
This picture looks a lot like one that drew me into to the whole traditional Finnish axe history.

That thing is "sexy" for a lack of a better word... or maybe that is the best word lol.:thumbsup:
(Or maybe I just have a weird thing for them...)
 
This picture looks a lot like one that drew me into to the whole traditional Finnish axe history.

This isn't the exact one but it looks quite a bit like the one I was thinking:
36747832360_2b9d643b33_h.jpg
 
Since a group is stronger than an individual…

There are a lot of them I see in listings and other forums that are somewhat to very worn and unmarked due to use and wear. It is kind of hard to figure out what model some of them are. Sometimes the auction listers/owners call them Billnäs or Kellokoski without marks. Are they simply guessing, going off what the previous owner said, had them long enough to remember the markings before they are worn, simply close enough in overall build that the average real Finnish user sees them as equivalents, or maybe they are just more familiar with one maker over the other?

I mean, the older models are pretty close to the same if you strip the details off through use and weather.

Here is something I just noticed about the eyes on Billnäs and Kellokoski Kemis:
KemiEyeNprofile by Agent Hierarchy, on Flickr
Left to right:
Kellokoski 12.3
Kellokoski 12.2 (marked 12.2)
Billnäs 12.2 (I think given its overall similarity to the above marked Kellokoski 12.2)
Billnäs 12.1 I’m guessing, given it is larger overall, longer collar, larger poll, and has a more pronounced sweep to the toe than the others – that is still accounting for wear but would end wider than any of the others.

What I noticed is that the Kellokoski axes have eyes that are more softened rectangular shape than the Billnäs. The Billnäs are more of an elongated oval. The Kellokoskis I have show this as well as some have a notch dug into the front but I am thinking that is from a user prying at the eyes as they don’t go much below the edge of the eye (meaning it doesn’t carry on through the rest of the eye, making me think the notch isn’t from production)

Here is an example of what I am thinking with two that are hafted that are not included in the last photo:
KemiEyeNprofile by Agent Hierarchy, on Flickr
Billnäs left, Kellokoski right. Obviously they are different sizes. The 12.3 on the right looks a bit oval but it "squared" with the notching I was talking about filled with wood about .35" at center and less to the the sides to keep moisture out.

Bob, what does your “eye” tell you?

Telling worn 12.1's and 12.2's apart is another story I don't know all of the parts to yet...
KemiEyeNprofile by Agent Hierarchy, on Flickr

Like most axes, they aren't very useful without handles (still gives us something "kirves" to talk about though) :)

*September 6, 2017 was the centennial of Finland's Independence.
 
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This isn't the exact one but it looks quite a bit like the one I was thinking:
36747832360_2b9d643b33_h.jpg
Is that a 12/3 size head? I looked at the log house video again starting at 4:20 through when they did the shingling and floor. I couldn't tell if any handles were as short as the one on mine. It seemed that they choked up on the handles for most of the axe work. It was hard for me to get a frame that showed the whole handle and had something for reference. Took mine outside yesterday mainly to get some pictures. I did a little chopping and split some kindling, hardly enough to say so. but no complaints so far and I can always make a longer handle if seems like I need it.


Bob
 
Thanks for this diagram, Kevin. Is the object at the lower left the wedge? And from the image next to it can we deduce that a kerf wasn't cut and that this wedge then pushed in all directions?
It sure looks to be! That'd be 'quite the stunt' to make and set one of these without everything 'going for she-it'. And not difficult to see where the idea behind hollow conical wedges came from.
 
I’ve been at work early and back late and that makes my responses a little disjointed.

Bob, you totally could be right about the video and it just the perspective. I was thinking at 4:20, the older white-haired guy uses a shorter-handled axe in the video to notch the logs – it is hard to capture but you see his hand placement and his with his short, downward swing, the handle’s swell is exposed. That made me think it was a bit shorter than some of the others. Also, some of the other axes used seemed to have more of a curve/longer in the belly in their handles while also looking longer.

N1In8m4.jpg

XM7mZOX.jpg

QjwkSS1.jpg


The other axes used by other guys in the video seemed a bit longer handled until this younger blond guy (familial resemblance?) shows up doing the same type of notching work with what looks like the same or similarly set up Kemi on a shorter handle?
wvAcEvs.jpg


Might also be that I have watched that video too many times and now I am talking myself into it. :)

I was under the impression that the Kemi model 12.3 was standard Suomalainen Armeija (SA) issue for many tasks from cooking to fortification. Some previous examples (I think there is a lot of material in this thread that might keep coming back in new discussions):
How long does that first one look to you guys?
Axes_Finnish_Army_1939-1945_16.jpg


Axes_Finnish_Army_1939-1945_15.jpg


Is that a 12/3 size head?...

Bob


Kemi SA 12.3 Example by Agent Hierarchy, on Flickr

Kemi SA 12.3 Example by Agent Hierarchy, on Flickr

Kemi SA 12.3 Example by Agent Hierarchy, on Flickr

Maybe that notch in the Kellokoski comes from driving metal wedges...?
Kemi SA 12.3 Example by Agent Hierarchy, on Flickr

Kemi SA 12.3 Example by Agent Hierarchy, on Flickr


… I looked at the log house video again starting at 4:20 through when they did the shingling and floor. I couldn't tell if any handles were as short as the one on mine. It seemed that they choked up on the handles for most of the axe work. It was hard for me to get a frame that showed the whole handle and had something for reference. Took mine outside yesterday mainly to get some pictures. I did a little chopping and split some kindling, hardly enough to say so. but no complaints so far and I can always make a longer handle if seems like I need it.

Bob


I’m with you there Bob but for some reason those two excerpts got my attention every time I have watched it.

K Kevin Houtzager , you could be right about the production methods. I will have to look again but those axes are marked in a variety of ways that gave me the impression of being across a time period – what that time period is, I don’t know for sure – but I am determined to try lol.

I also have a Kellokoski 15.2 that I handled with the imprint+raised lettering and a Billnäs 61.2 with raised lettering that were used in Finnish schools into the 80's that are probably from the same "later era" of production:

KemiEyeNprofiles by Agent Hierarchy, on Flickr

KemiEyeNprofiles by Agent Hierarchy, on Flickr

The eyes kind of say the same thing as the other models I was posting? Kellokoski on the left, Billnäs on the right.
 
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Yep, and there is another difference as well: Later handles are a bit wider and have the cut in top parkt. Older models don't have any cuts. I hate the cutouts, not so much for estatics, but for being as thick as the head and therefore hitting the tree when splitting or chopping to deep. Every head should be bigger then the handle, so it can slip between the crack.

They produced it later on so it would take less time to fit, making it cheaper in end.

Aesthetically, I would agree on the handle. But for what it's worth, those little carving/carpentry hatchets are separate from the larger felling/general purpose axes. They are quite diminutive compared to their bigger brother and sister tools. The collar opening on them are small enough that you end up with a tongue the size of a large finger.

Also, it might depend on what we are referring to as "newer".

Mariefors Bruk/Kellokoski 1921
*Is this 1921 Mariefors Bruk catalog page using the word "Yxor" for "Axe"?
Kellloski.p8 by Agent Hierarchy, on Flickr


Billnas 1928
Luttelo.Bilnas.p.18 by Agent Hierarchy, on Flickr


Kellokoski 1940

Kellloski.1940.axes
by Agent Hierarchy, on Flickr
 
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"Yxor" would be Swedish, but yeah, it means "axes"...

Yes. What can that tell us? I mean, if by 1921 they were using the Swedish word for “axe” in the header of their catalog listings, were they attempting to reach larger markets? Had “Yxor” become the operative term for “axe” (replacing the Finnish “Kirve+suffix” regionally as well?) There are different ways to look at it that may coincide with production modernization and volume. Could they produce for and meet larger markets now in general? If so, then there are a couple of assumptions we might make that could show in the design of the axes in absence of a clear model or maker mark.

...As for the timeframe: The change happened somewhere in the early 1915-1920. So the above catalogue would be "late". And with late I mean after the industrialisation. That happened during the same time period. That chart is what the weights should be, but as for the Billnäs I've seen and had: Mostly 1123, but all heavier then 1,1Kg, with most of them around de 1350 gram-1450 gram mark. So the actual chart weight of the 1122. I wouldn't categorise any "12" as a carving axe/hatchet, since they are mostly to heavy and to thick. Sure you can carve with it, but its designed as a general purpose axe. I would only categorise the "15" as a carving axe.

Nor would I ever categorize any of the Kemi 12.x models as a dedicated carving axe. And I didn't as far as I can tell.
I was making a case for the Kemi models being fully functional on a shortened handle like Bob’s. Also, I was positing a theory and sublimely hinting that if anyone with one, they might take a picture of their "eyes" for a comparison between the two forges.

I don't personally have any examples of pre-industrialization (and unless someone is holding out here on the forums, no one here does either). I fully understand what you are saying about the handles.

Personally, I would not hang the larger ones via the "cut-in" method either and haven't. I actually feel that doing that would lead to an early demise of the handle for the same reason you don’t see any recommendations for the "Cut-in" of the shoulders and tongues on most other axes/tools.

The smaller hatchet-sized ones in the last pictures are not in the same class as the larger general purpose/felling axes but rather to show two comparable models. I posted them as a examples of two axes I believe were produced in the same general time period to show a difference in the eye shapes.

KirvesDiscussion. by Agent Hierarchy, on Flickr

KirvesDiscussion. by Agent Hierarchy, on Flickr

KirvesDiscussion. by Agent Hierarchy, on Flickr

I was also under the impression that the larger head models were sold to be handled by the user. When did that stop? Or did it completely? Is it a fact that they always sent them out with a handle?

The hammers and hatchets (including the Kellokoski 15.x and the Billnas 61.x) are shown with that method of hang and are the only ones that seem to be offered with handles – at least in those catalogs. They are purposely separated from the larger heads in the catalogs. Both makes/models are hung with the "cut-in" method for a verifiable 20+ time period. I intentionally and purposefully tried to recreate the handle from the catalog and what Olli69 sent me not because I think it was best, but it seems to be accurate to that period, right? I also am not entirely convinced that it is a time saver at all to properly create a tight “cut-in” hang after doing it as opposed to the tapered tongue approach. I would like to see someone else try it and gather their input before I completely espouse my own comment.

The only really heavy axe is the 25. And thats a hewing axe as far I know on a short handle. Would be a beast on a longer one though! Although I cant say If it can take the impact like that. That's probably the only axe I would trade my 1123 for.

KirvesDiscussion. by Agent Hierarchy, on Flickr

Felling a tree or splitting larger rounds seems like it would get at the collar right where it meets the bit. My impression is that it is designed for a controlled drop type of swing. Repeatedly pulling it upright out of a log round or laterally back and forth (side to side) when you fell a tree seems like it would stress it right where it is weakest.
The larger that pattern is, the less the collar would stand up to that type of use?

Like all the other axes we have sought origin/change information on, it is interesting. I don't mind being wrong if I learn something from it.


The best answers come from the right questions. Right?
 
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I can grab some calipers and take measurements of the larger one. You can run some "engineering voodoo" on it lol. I actually haven't really examined it closely since it arrived here - it holds sawdust like a champ though. ;)

There is an active listing out there right now for a similar one with a crack right where I was thinking the weak spot would be on the larger hewing axes. I saved the pictures but will wait until the listing is done to post it here.

Google Translate is lacking but I found this interesting in regards to the numbering system:

Kellokoski (and Billnäs) revised numbering system.
http://www.europeana.eu/portal/en/record/2021008/M011_329438.html
https://flic.kr/p/VbuVVi
"Billnäs ax number 12, the so-called Kemi model is the Finnish way conventional hamarallinen and varsitupellinen model. The model developed by far the most popular type of ax that was used to fell a tree to all working operations as well as Halon felling. Kemi model was developed half a dozen parallel model. In particular, issues 12/2 M36 recommended hakkuukirveeksi Työtehoseuran study carried out in 1946 (published in Työtehoseuran series of tools called Forest Research for Standardization). Number 12 was Billnäs production in the early 1900s and it was developed with half a dozen parallel models. For example, the number 12/2 M36 is telling the ax, as well as in Kemi that the 1936 cut felling ax. The model of production was restored Billnäs production after outage in early 1950. Manufacturing, however, continued for only a few years, after which the model left the final production. Since the 1960s, focused on the production of ax Fiskars kirveissä but still remained a Billnäs brand. Kemi model axes (12/1, 12/2 and 12/3) is now entered in a new way. Eg 12/2 front labeling model was added to the number 1, and punctuation removed. The new entry was therefore form 1122. 1970's, the traditional model of Kemi was finally completely out of production."



 
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