Finnish/Earlier Scandi axes - Kirves

[John A. Larsen]

A friend of mine in Finland emailed me today that he had never even seen a Högfor axe, but has just been able to buy two of them, and in the photo they look pristine. John

 

[Antas]

Thought I would post one picture of a few axe heads used by my relatives several generations back. They are all Billnäs stamped, but none of these have any model number stamp. Does anyone know when Billnäs implemented the numbers for different patterns?

The axe head up left has about similar cutting edge length and weight as nr. 32 "Luleå" according 1928 Billnäs catalog.
The axe head down right has about similar cutting edge length and weight as nr. 24 "Swedish" according 1928 Billnäs catalog.
The two other ones is not found from the 1928 catalog, and I have not seen these online either.
If someone have any information regarding these I'ld be grateful.

Antas

 

[rjdankert]

Lower right:

Model 24?

Bob

 

[Kevin Houtzager]

x

 

[Kevin Houtzager]

x

 

[Agent_H]

Thought I would post one picture of a few axe heads used by my relatives several generations back. They are all Billnäs stamped, but none of these have any model number stamp. Does anyone know when Billnäs implemented the numbers for different patterns?

The axe head up left has about similar cutting edge length and weight as nr. 32 "Luleå" according 1928 Billnäs catalog.
The axe head down right has about similar cutting edge length and weight as nr. 24 "Swedish" according 1928 Billnäs catalog.
The two other ones is not found from the 1928 catalog, and I have not seen these online either.
If someone have any information regarding these I'ld be grateful.

Antas

Thank you for sharing the photos of the axes!

That lower left one that looks like a German Rhinelander or big Hudson Bay pattern isn’t one I’ve seen mentioned. Is there any chance you could take a picture of the eye, from the top down?

 

[Antas]

And as a side note: Ohion translates to Ohio pattern as far as I can understand.

Yes correct, The Finnish word "Ohion" is the genetive case of "Ohio", and can be translated to "Ohio's pattern".
It's possible that it is a Ohio 20/1, as the weight match. However according to my measurements the length of the cutting edge is 85mm on this one, but according Billnäs 1928 catalog 20/1 has cutting edge length 105mm. So not quite sure, would be good to see photos of Ohio for reference.

Thank you for sharing the photos of the axes!

That lower left one that looks like a German Rhinelander or big Hudson Bay pattern isn’t one I’ve seen mentioned. Is there any chance you could take a picture of the eye, from the top down?

Here's another photo, eye from the bottom down. Weight is 2 kg (4.4 lb), cutting edge 130mm (5 inch);

Antas

 

[jake pogg]

Apropos of nothing...A couple of photos of an older,rurally forged Kirve.
A progenitor of all those neat/trim Billnas/Kello kirves.
Curious to see that failed forge-weld where the axe has lost it's poll,presumably by means of severe and repeated beating...
https://imgur.com/a/oeG3ZCk

 

[Agent_H]

Apropos of nothing...A couple of photos of an older,rurally forged Kirve.
A progenitor of all those neat/trim Billnas/Kello kirves.
Curious to see that failed forge-weld where the axe has lost it's poll,presumably by means of severe and repeated beating...
https://imgur.com/a/oeG3ZCk

Even without its poll it is a neat looking creature. Is this a "hatchet sized" kirves?

 

[jake pogg]

That's true,Agent_H,like many things so frankly shaped by hand it's very appealing...And yes,it's a "boy's axe"-ish size tool,cutting edge 85mm long.
(photos stolen from an overseas resource where it was put up for sale(grossly overpriced,too.

 

[John A. Larsen]

Agent H, Are you going to the OKC Show in Eugene, next month? John

 

[Ernest DuBois]

Could it be that it was poll-less from the outset? Not so often you see these hand-mades out of Finland, like coming across a gem in the tailings heap of Kelloskillies and Billnäs.

 

[Agent_H]

That's true,Agent_H,like many things so frankly shaped by hand it's very appealing...And yes,it's a "boy's axe"-ish size tool,cutting edge 85mm long.
(photos stolen from an overseas resource where it was put up for sale(grossly overpriced,too.

Yes, I think you put to words what draws me in when I look at it. The polls were forge welded on? I suppose they could fail and come completely off? Or be ground off in the case of being absolutely ruined.
Just for fun, if that one was originally an intact model number from Mariefors, Kellokoski, or Billnäs, is there anything from a smith's perspective that might hint at a return to the forge for repair?

Here it looks like it has a very pronounce down sweep. If originally shaped like that, wouldn't it make it the tongue of the handle a little narrow at the end for securing?

Does there seem to be a large impression on the face of the blade kind of similar to one you posted previously? Maybe returned to the fire, repaired, reshaped, or resteeled?

This is one from a previous post of yours.

Could it be that it was poll-less from the outset? Not so often you see these hand-mades out of Finland, like coming across a gem in the tailings heap of Kelloskillies and Billnäs.

Entirely possible, Ernest. Have you seen any examples from your travels of axes built similarly but starting their lives without polls?

Agent H, Are you going to the OKC Show in Eugene, next month? John

I could actually make it there. Are you going? I'll shoot you an email later today

 

[jake pogg]

It's possible that it was polless to begin with,but i Think(strictly a notion)that certain flat that doesn't extend to collar...
Also,it appears to be that granular texture that a broken weld leaves behind...(naturally,judging by photos is pretty lame!

 

[Ernest DuBois]

In terms of actually having had my hands on one without poll I've got this ugly duckling, similar in the socket albeit after that not for chopping but slicing.

And of course the piilukirves was never with poll. These chopping versions without poll are not so common but neither unknown, both factory produced and small forge made. Lepola hints at them now and again without ever going into the specific question as far as I know. Jake makes a convincing case for a lost poll in this case though, so I can buy that as things stand.

 

[Agent_H]

In terms of actually having had my hands on one without poll I've got this ugly duckling, similar in the socket albeit after that not for chopping but slicing.

And of course the piilukirves was never with poll. These chopping versions without poll are not so common but neither unknown, both factory produced and small forge made. Lepola hints at them now and again without ever going into the specific question as far as I know. Jake makes a convincing case for a lost poll in this case though, so I can buy that as things stand.

I hear what you are saying Ernest. Where would you guess (or know) your axe is from, locale made, or influenced by? Finland or Sweden maybe?

The one that Jake posted is interesting. The top-down view shows the corner angles on the collar that I associate with Finnish axes of a certain time (Billnäs for example) but they seem to disappear the more forward you go to the eye's end, making me think it took abuse and failed, mashing out the poll, leaving the collar a bit smashed and maybe some metal from the collar itself lapped over like all abused axes:

The more recent grinding/filing seen here makes me think there much have been some protruding metal that was unwanted and removed.

The similar ones that I have that have had the polls beaten-in, are impressed essentially where that grinding ends on the collar toward the handle. An attempt to at least be brought back closer to the original shape of the collar at that point?

It might be a very serviceable axe but I would be reluctant pick it up as being billed as a "unique" model that was designed as such. I reserve the right to change my opinion and to continue conversation with new information as it comes.

 

[John A. Larsen]

I have been watching videos on You Tube of a young Danish blacksmith, who has no power tools. His grindstone is powered by a converted bicycle that he peddles, his Drop Forge he operates with one leg and a spring or large rubber band. He has several nice Finnish axes, and in this latest episode he has a small Hatchett, but Pure Finnish head on it, almost that to say it but it looks cute. He uses the Hatchett to form the handle for the hammer. His name and the way to find him on You Tube is : Rune Malte-Nielsen and the Episode is " Making Two Viking Blacksmith Hammers-Cross Pen.

 

[Curt Hal]

Thought I would post one picture of a few axe heads used by my relatives several generations back. They are all Billnäs stamped, but none of these have any model number stamp. Does anyone know when Billnäs implemented the numbers for different patterns?

The axe head up left has about similar cutting edge length and weight as nr. 32 "Luleå" according 1928 Billnäs catalog.
The axe head down right has about similar cutting edge length and weight as nr. 24 "Swedish" according 1928 Billnäs catalog.
The two other ones is not found from the 1928 catalog, and I have not seen these online either.
If someone have any information regarding these I'ld be grateful.

Antas

Lower left looks like a Montreal pattern. It looks similar to a Hults Bruk I have.

 

[jake pogg]

That axe `seems entirely forged by hand-forging methods...As such,it'd be very difficult to trace any later repair/re-blading,as would involve the very same forging tech.That concavity could as easily be the original stretching out of mass,someone guesstimated a bit short of desired length/mass...

Many older kirves,piilus in particular,had virtually no wood,a splinter, protruding out the top, were handled almost as a blind socket tool...(so were many earlier goose-wings).

That poll was forge-welded on,normally,until the later industrial methods where the head was slit and drifted.
That weld is located well for a weld,it's use only smashes it more.But often it was of such soft iron that past a certain point the welds broke by sheer forces smearing that metal against the poll,if you will.
But the weld could've simply been a lousy one.
Sometimes a smith has a crappy day,or a chunk he picked up off the floor had something nasty in it,et c.The very old work is normally rich in lousy(-looking as well as actually bad) welds,much of it survives the tool itself...

There're a number of Norwegian and Swedish axes that look a bit similar,but kirves are actually kind of distinct...This one definitely has It,the Suomi feel about it...

 

[jake pogg]

P.S. This is a neat piece of history(posted by Marcus Lepola),https://www.academia.edu/36027370/Strömfors_Bruk_-_The_Old_School_Axe_Maker_in_Finland?auto=download

Plate 18,towards the end,pictures a poll-less axe and a ditto piilu,both quite old.
The axe is well rounded around the back of the eye,seemingly no welded-on poll was intended.(though usually the welding is accomplished on a similarly rounded surface,the poll shaped in a corresponding concave shape).

Also,another alternative(the most involved skill-wise),is a poll shaped from the back/top part of the socket,as in Wira video...

(sorry about disjointed postings,intense work schedule).