Finnish/Earlier Scandi axes - Kirves

Square_peg said:
It cost me nearly $50 to send a rafting axe to Ontario.
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My experience was that the outgoing small priority boxes have a 20lb max domestically, internationally there is a strict 5lb max and then you pay per ounce over that limit.

I can picture one of those rafting axe heads, secure packing plus the box hitting that pretty quickly.



Kevin Houtzager said:
Yeah Thats correct: My pocket is your ledge/shelf. When you do so, in essence your are limiting your handle usuage by how much room you have left between the ledge and the eye. Lets say its 3mm or 1/8 of an inch? When you need to tap it secure, that 3mm is all the room to get it seated again. Where as you don't have a ledge in the first place, you can just reseat it until you run out of handle to reseat it on. And from a history standpoint: They only did the ledges on the later models with the screws or nails in the handle to secure the head. It cut down on seating each and every haft in the factory. So it was only done from a labor saving perspective (all handles where bought in bulk, not made at the factory). Just make it fit like you would on a Goosewing, and it'll be fine.



There actually isn't one thats quite the same? The only one that comes close is the Dutch equivalent for "Actions speak louder than words" : "Geen woorden maar daden" (litteral translation: "No words but deeds") But as we both know, thats not quite the same. It the same as translating "Gezellig" to English. "Cozy" comes close, but it isn't quite te same. Language is a weird thing ;)
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“My pocket is your shelf” sounds pretty “Gezellig” to me :thumbsup:
 
I do not disagree with what has been said about inletting a collar into a handle. I only have two collared axes, and have only made a handle for one of them so take the following fwiw.

I have recently had an interest in carving and half dozen hatchets to experiment with. One of them is unidentified, but I believe it is the equivalent of a Kellokosken 15/3 veistokirves (Crafting ax). I used it with the inlet handle that came with it and liked it, but that handle was starting to split so I made a new one. I did not inlet the collar on the new one, I suppose for reasons previously mentioned. Right or wrong I am using these hatchets gripping close to the head. That's the way I've seen them used on YouTube instructional videos and seems best for ME. Now to get to the point (pun intended) here is a picture of of the hatchet:



After 5-10 minutes use (gripping shown above) the palm of my hand got pretty uncomfortable:rolleyes:. Seems like a smooth transition from collar to handle would better suit my style.


Bob
 
rjdankert said:
I do not disagree with what has been said about inletting a collar into a handle. I only have two collared axes, and have only made a handle for one of them so take the following fwiw.

I have recently had an interest in carving and half dozen hatchets to experiment with. One of them is unidentified, but I believe it is the equivalent of a Kellokosken 15/3 veistokirves (Crafting ax). I used it with the inlet handle that came with it and liked it, but that handle was starting to split so I made a new one. I did not inlet the collar on the new one, I suppose for reasons previously mentioned. Right or wrong I am using these hatchets gripping close to the head. That's the way I've seen them used on YouTube instructional videos and seems best for ME. Now to get to the point (pun intended) here is a picture of of the hatchet:



After 5-10 minutes use (gripping shown above) the palm of my hand got pretty uncomfortable:rolleyes:. Seems like a smooth transition from collar to handle would better suit my style.


Bob
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I hear what you are saying Bob. I’ve used this one quite a bit:


Having the seamless transition from the collar to the handle has proven comfortable. My decision to do that was simply to model it after the other one that Ollie passed on to me that was used in the school programs. It will definitely be harder to reseat it if necessary. A trade-off I guess.
 
I really like the way you've done that,Agent_H.
I've no moral right to speak of hafting(haven't gotten off my duff to do Any in ages...:(..
But i agree with what Bob and you say(and do:).
All theory being true,the possible/eventual re-hafting is not really an issue.
A flush-saw(that can be very easily made by quickly running off the set from one side of a hacksaw blade on a grinder) can be guided by edge of collar without marring it,and will quickly and controllably give the necessary reseating space.
 
Yes, here with the straight abutment sawing a kerf with the axe head situated is easily enough done, not even necessary to fudge with the saw set just care in placing the sharp teeth and watching the depth of the kerf. All this of course resolves itself with some forethought and a 2 -3 mm gap is inconsequential to the comfort of the grip but a proper swell on the handle after the taper will also provide clearance and seamless grip. I just think this gap is a kind of unspoken language understood amongst the initiated:).
 
This big piilu has a different grind to it (or maybe it doesn't lol). One side is ground a touch higher and slopes into the cheeks and the other side was a bit shorter/steeper chisel. I just went over the existing grinds with files and 180grit paperblock to clean it up and remove some of the pitting. I am definitely trying to be conservative with how much gets removed from it but do want to do it right.

I had assumed they should be the same, which won’t be a problem to do on my part, but I wonder if the steeper side was done on purpose? The slightly steeper side is on my right, like a more traditional side/hewing axe and the more gradual on the opposite reminds me of what GB sort of does with their right-handed large carving axe. Anyone with first-hand experience with the appropriate grind, please chime in.

I did, however, succeed in making it sharp enough to tape it up before I start fixing the collar mouth and making a handle. Couldn’t help myself – axes don’t look right not being sharp I guess.

Big.piilu


Big.piilu
 
Don't doubt your observations. The subtitles of bevel forms are lost because this is too often an aspect proceeded on on the basis of unfounded assumptions. Terje Granas, who has looked into it said recently he could identify four different bevel configurations on Norwegian hewing axes alone, with in some cases a single edge having a geometry that changes along its length, and it should surprise no-one either, maybe you have even caught wind of the concept yourself in your studies. And don't believe either that it is a case of a casual attitude towards sharpening, which it is expressly not. Especially on this big pillu with its relatively straight edge profile the asymmetrical bevel as you describe must have an intension behind it which it would take a specialist in the technique to lay out. Lacking that it will be up to you to sharpen it, maintaining and noting the geometry as is, and providing your own analysis of its performance. I have delved slightly into the technique with my own piilukirves in the past and when looking at this one it strikes me as a mysterious example but one that could give you some surprising results.
 
rjdankert said:
Facebook:

Finnish Vintage Axes

Making the long-collared axe in the blacksmithing workshop in Estonian Academy of Arts.

https://www.facebook.com/finnishaxes/photos/a.735156353292364/1385199168288076/?type=3&theater



Bob
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Bob, thank you for linking his FB here. He really does have an amazing collection of all manner of Finnish/older Scandinavian axes and bladed tools. In fact, the 12.3 that @ithinkverydeeply built the fine leather piece for and the model 7 I have came from him. I didn’t realize it until I went through his pictures a while ago. A plus is that he seems like an upstanding character beyond having nice axes.
 
Ernest DuBois said:
Don't doubt your observations. The subtitles of bevel forms are lost because this is too often an aspect proceeded on on the basis of unfounded assumptions. Terje Granas, who has looked into it said recently he could identify four different bevel configurations on Norwegian hewing axes alone, with in some cases a single edge having a geometry that changes along its length, and it should surprise no-one either, maybe you have even caught wind of the concept yourself in your studies. And don't believe either that it is a case of a casual attitude towards sharpening, which it is expressly not. Especially on this big pillu with its relatively straight edge profile the asymmetrical bevel as you describe must have an intension behind it which it would take a specialist in the technique to lay out. Lacking that it will be up to you to sharpen it, maintaining and noting the geometry as is, and providing your own analysis of its performance. I have delved slightly into the technique with my own piilukirves in the past and when looking at this one it strikes me as a mysterious example but one that could give you some surprising results.
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Ernest, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on the whole matter. Also, the acknowledgement of my process of questioning. I don’t have any old Finnish piilu-men to run this by – not sure how many I would find in a casual trip to Finland, for that matter…

I understand the benefits of a single-beveled side-axe, given application, and I’ve tried to picture a guy trying to finish the interior walls of a traditional Suomi building- into the corners both left and right.

Traditionally, with a single log procured, dogged, and secured, it seems like a guy works downward on it with a single bevel axe. Primarily with cross-grain cuts?

Interestingly, the heavier Finnish, wide-bladed axes don’t appear with an offset handle. From a right-handers perspective, if the left side grind is drawn up high and shallow, smoothly meeting the meat of the bit, and the right side steeper, would it allow you to work from floor to eye-level in a finishing sense, without your hands getting in the way of the wall/work? The left-bevel allowing a similar angle of approach to a single bevel axe via clearance but the cutting edge naturally pushing the axe into/along the plane of work as opposed to coming straight down into it?

The axe would be naturally offset due to the longer bevel against the wood and the more chisel side removing material like the single-bevel blades I might be more familiar with? I am sure it would take a special touch to do but the more I search around to look at photos of these, there seems to reappear, one side that gets ground sometimes higher up the bit and the other seems shorter (to varying degrees).

I believe this is from the same "Vintage Finnish Axes" that Bob shared:

Rotating piilu on a grindstone
 
Do you see what I see when I see that pedestaled pillu?
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