Finnish/Earlier Scandi axes - Kirves

Agent_H said:
I tried my damnedest to not seat this thing beyond pushing it in there by hand but it won’t come out now without messing up the tongue. Couple of beers and knocking it once lightly on the bench set it on there pretty well.

Probably should be happy that it’s hung but it poses a problem for shipping to the Leather Master now lol.

I know some are probably “Kirves Fatigued” with these travails but I’ve tried to contain it...

Big.piilu

Still needs work.
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No you won't want to try driving the handle backwards out the opening in the conventional way, but there is a solution according to the Norwegian smid and carpenter's axe historian. By knocking with a stick, for example, it's an intimidating prospect I know, along the length of the socket the vibrations will eventually break the grip and the head will loosen from the handle. This is one of the advantages of the whole concept of tapered sockets. The head coming loose is not problematic and is in fact desirable at times, because it's always re-seatable, (when you haven't prevented the possibility by creating a hard shoulder there;) and so long as the angle of the socket's taper is not overly open). A breitbeil, it's the same.
 
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Ernest DuBois said:
No you won't want to try driving the handle backwards out the opening in the conventional way, but there is a solution according to the Norwegian smid and carpenter's axe historian. By knocking with a stick, for example, it's an intimidating prospect I know, along the length of the socket the vibrations will eventually break the grip and the head will loosen from the handle. This is one of the advantages of the whole concept of tapered sockets. The head coming loose is not problematic and is in fact desirable at times, because it's always re-seatable, (when you haven't prevented the possibility by creating a hard shoulder there;) and so long as the angle of the socket's taper is not overly open). A breitbeil, it's the same.
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I appreciate the advice Ernest. Funny that you brought that up as I read something on your blog a while back about not being too aggressive during the fitting process or one ends up running into trouble...
 
Yeah well I never intentionally back out a handle that way, tried it a time or two but didn't trust myself to not incur some inadvertent damage as a result. But a head will loosen from time to time, incidentally, in the course or work. I will rap the socket of my slick to break it down for traveling. It works like a dream.
 
Agent_H said:
I tried my damnedest to not seat this thing beyond pushing it in there by hand but it won’t come out now without messing up the tongue.
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helppo;)

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Joo?:p


Bob
 
ithinkverydeeply said:
Are you going to get one?!
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I don’t know, now I’m curious. They are the price of a nice vintage head but appear to be mono steel construction. They seem to have hit Amazon as well as of yesterday.

My impression is that they might be made by the same fellow that supplied some members here with hatchet/adzes a while back? If I’m recognizing the name correctly.

“Finnish type universal axe

High quality steel AISI-4150

Tempered in motor oil. HRC- 50-55
Shaving sharp.

The handle is made from beech tree and fitted according to the rules of Finnish type of axes. Applied with boiled linseed oil.

Dimensions: Total weight: 1870 gr. or 4.13 lbs Length: 26" or 66 cm. Width: 7" or 18 cm Blade: 4" or 10 cm.

The axe is stamped ‘MF’"
 
Agent_H said:
My impression is that they might be made by the same fellow that supplied some members here with hatchet/adzes a while back?
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That's what I was thinking, too. I viewed the whole line on Amazon. I bet it's the same maker.

I received one of those 'axe and azde' models for testing. I gave it a workout on some dry hardwood and it held up nicely. Stayed sharp, didn't roll or chip. I even made some very hard blows at 90 degrees straight into the wood. It took it just fine.
 
Thought this was interesting

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Couldn't find "scout" axes in this thread, or in the couple of catalogs I have available. Not much found on web either. Here is one from our Facebook friend

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Anyone have information on them?


Bob
 
Agent_H said:
Wish I knew an old Finnish blacksmith who liked to re-steel things like this.
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Agent_H,i mulled over this subject for a number of years now.And adding all factors together i now think that the solution would be some cool old welder/fabricator guy Locally(someone like the guy you're having repair your post-vise).
We should let the fire-weld,and other neat little traditions go,and just cut to the chase and save the tool itself,in it's essence.That socket/poll/et c. represent a terrific amount of highly skilled,possibly not repeatable today labor.
So,make a straight cut,bevel it correctly et c.,and electric-weld an edge of modern steel alloy of your choice*,HT,and have another 100+ years of use of the tool.

* given that a chunk of Known alloy is used,with it's data-sheet attached,the object can then be shipped to a commercial heat-treat joint,if a COG(cool old guy:)) is not set up or is intimidated by HT.
If an alloy commonly used locally for automotive springs is used(often quite a good choice for edge material,good example being AISI 5160),then it makes it even simpler,as many spring-shops do their own in-house HT.
 
jake pogg said:
Agent_H,i mulled over this subject for a number of years now.And adding all factors together i now think that the solution would be some cool old welder/fabricator guy Locally(someone like the guy you're having repair your post-vise).
We should let the fire-weld,and other neat little traditions go,and just cut to the chase and save the tool itself,in it's essence.That socket/poll/et c. represent a terrific amount of highly skilled,possibly not repeatable today labor.
So,make a straight cut,bevel it correctly et c.,and electric-weld an edge of modern steel alloy of your choice*,HT,and have another 100+ years of use of the tool.

* given that a chunk of Known alloy is used,with it's data-sheet attached,the object can then be shipped to a commercial heat-treat joint,if a COG(cool old guy:)) is not set up or is intimidated by HT.
If an alloy commonly used locally for automotive springs is used(often quite a good choice for edge material,good example being AISI 5160),then it makes it even simpler,as many spring-shops do their own in-house HT.
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Jake, you are probably right about the fire weld approach in regards to getting that type of tool back into shape. I believe craftsmen should be paid for their work and judging by what going rates are for straight-forward welding, I wonder if something like that wouldn't quickly surpass the cost of the tool several times over.

If there were a COG (CYG for that matter:)) with those honed skills, resources, and some interest in old tools like that, I would likely bring them business.
 
Agent_H said:
I believe craftsmen should be paid for their work and judging by what going rates are for straight-forward welding, I wonder if something like that wouldn't quickly surpass the cost of the tool several times over.
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Absolutely.
The going rates for fabrication and machining are commesurate with all other trades and economy in general.
Whereas forging methods are so out of date Time-wise,so relatively little happens in a forge in one hour,that i simply does NOT work.

With the resurgence of axe-collecting this could be a lovely little racket for a right person.So much nowadays is being done remotely anyway,by means of mail and internet,and axes of all things are so conveniently compact to ship...
Beyond even custom work that same guy can invest in some of all these leprous/toeless-heelless TT's et c. that seem to be dime a dozen,and offer retreads at a reasonable rates for those seeking a utility in an old tool.
As a smith i see Tremendous value in something like that as it is SO incredibly time/energy/Skill-consuming to forge even an "average",American type poll/eye...If only folks knew...And of course there's nothing whatsoever wrong with that part in an otherwise utterly played-out axe.

I'd even suggest a possible touch of class in such repair:Do the weldment in SS rod,to accentuate the repair vs attempting to hide it.
The resulting color scheme would match that of an older Japanese tradition,i've no examples to hand but to me it always looked corker...:)
 
Agent_H said:
Back to the roots lol. Unfortunately knocking it on the stump wont get this thing off.

But once again, I think smoking changes the kirves physics - "Never to late to start!"
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It looks to me that my favorite Finn left the tongue a little long. I did on Piggy.
rjdankert said:
Bang it on, bang it off, take off a little wood, bang it on, bang it off, take off a little wood, bang it on, bang it off, take off a little wood, bang it on, bang it off, take off a little wood, bang it on, bang it off, take off a little wood, bang it on, bang it off, take off a little wood, bang it on, bang it off, take off a little wood, bang it on, bang it off, take off a little wood, bang it on, bang it off, take off a little wood. . .

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I used a mallet instead of a stump. You waste a little wood, but you don't need that extra on top to fit anything. Also tried it on a couple of handles I made for "regular" heads. I can only say it works well for me, but YMMV.

As to the cigarettes. . . I gave them up so I just live with crooked hangs.:D


Bob
 
rjdankert said:
It looks to me that my favorite Finn left the tongue a little long. I did on Piggy.


I used a mallet instead of a stump. You waste a little wood, but you don't need that extra on top to fit anything. Also tried it on a couple of handles I made for "regular" heads. I can only say it works well for me, but YMMV.

As to the cigarettes. . . I gave them up so I just live with crooked hangs.:D


Bob
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The tongue coming out the end on these are pretty thin - you can see where I tried once to knock it out. I decided to run with it and trim up under the collar and continue to scootch it on there.

Big.piilu
 
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