fix cracks on the tang

JayGoliath

JayGoliath

Joined
Mar 27, 2010
Messages
4,981
Hello guys,

Asking for opinions and advices.
I noticed 2 hairline cracks on the handle tang and i'm thinking of getting it removed and welded.The problem is i don't know how deep it would be.
The crack line is about 5-7mm in length and way away from the rivets.


IMG_4621.jpg


IMG_4619.jpg


IMG_4628.jpg



The metal epoxy won't help much in the future.

Will consult a knife smith about the cracks. Trying not to burn the scales.
Your input is very much appreciated.
I've emailed Auntie about it and i'm not planning to send it back. My intention is to repair the tiny crack and continue to use it. The blade had gone through some rough yet a very sentimental part of journey and it's very special to me.:D

Mods, if this is not appropriate, please take it off.

Many thanks

Jay
 
I see no reason for this thread to be removed - it's a genuine issue and one that Aunty would gladly get straightened out if you allowed her. I share your sentiments though - I tend to feel bad about squabbling over smaller details. Aunty has a heart of gold and it's a shame that such an ethical/amazing person manages a small company like HI instead of multi-million dollar one (which would have the profit margins that would better accommodate Aunty's level of customer service).

As for the issue:
I'm not a blacksmith so I can't assess the depth of the crack without the scales removed. From the looks of it though, I doubt it goes very far down and there should be enough metal in the full dang design that it wouldn't be too much of an issue if you kept using it as is (especially since the handle doesn't receive too much of the shock of impact while chopping).

I'm just really perplexed by the fact that the crack is in the handle (as I'm fairly certain that section doesn't get heat treated) :confused:
 
Killa,

That is why i was hesitant to put this into the thread.
The crack lines are far from the rivets area and i just can't see why it cracked over there.
As for the shock impact, it does travel down to the tang which is why i see an effort to strengthen it. It will then be a personalized khuk for me,hehe.

I'm heading to the knife smith and will see what he can do.
As mentioned, I 'm keeping this blade for myself as it has made a very rough journey from Nepal to Penang.
;)


Auntie said this is a BRAVE knife. Couldn't agree more.

Did i say just how much i like this blade? :)
 
Crack's on the area in the handle where it is under compression when subjected to chopping forces.

I would use a small drill to drill multiple times at around 1/2 a cm deep creating a v-groove.

Then I'd weld it and then grind the excess to flush with the handle.

What about you guys, any risk from this method? I believe it is the best method. Just need an experienced welder and try not to overheat the tang too much.
 
killa_concept said:
From the looks of it though, I doubt it goes very far down and there should be enough metal in the full dang design that it wouldn't be too much of an issue if you kept using it as is (especially since the handle doesn't receive too much of the shock of impact while chopping).
Click to expand...
I agree with Killa's assesment. It most likely will go nowhere on a full tang knife unless you are beating the heck out of it. I would try to file a little off the tang before trying to weld it, as i'm pretty sure any blacksmith is going to tell you that it will be impossible to weld this without burning the scales. your only alternative then, is to drill out the pins and remove them.


killa_concept said:
I'm just really perplexed by the fact that the crack is in the handle (as I'm fairly certain that section doesn't get heat treated) :confused:
Click to expand...
As these things are made from a used truck spring, some micro fractures can occur. I'd suspect that is how these got there.
 
I highly doubt they will go anywhere.

I bought a 15" villager back in May of 2002 with similar marks on the spine. Uncle told me to use the heck out of it and not to worry. If it ever broke, he'd replace it.

8+ years later, it still rides in my truck. It's been through more adventures than most knifes (including chopping a steel culvert to rescue some trapped kittens).

The little cracks never went anywhere nor have they widened. MAYBE they MIGHT be an issue for my great-grand kids;)
 
As a Certified Welding Inspector I see cracks in weld from time to time. As others have said, these small cracks are probably not an issue. If the knife were mine and I wanted to repair the cracks this is what I would do:
1) remove the handle scales
2) use a grinder to very carefully grind out the cracks. Do NOT get the area of the cracks too hot as the cracks will run.
3) use the GTAW method or Heliarc as it is commonly known to weld the the tang close to the original dimensions.
4) grind to original dimensions.
5) replace handle scales

Good luck with what ever you decide.
 
The reason for using Heliarc is less heat input as opposed to stick rod. The welder should take his/her time and not let the tang get too hot, otherwise it will become hard and brittle.
 
Awesome! :thumbup:

I think i will go for GTAW.
But just one thought;

What if i wish to have the scales intact, can i put a layer of insulation on the scales so it wouldn't get burned.

I wonder if this is feasible. The job has got to be very careful.
 
You will have to remove the scales to be able to see how far the cracks run across the width of the tang. Just go slow and take your time. If you mess up the scales, I'm sure there are suitable local materials that can be used for replacement. The main thing is to NOT overheat the tang, either by grinding or welding.
 
Wovoka,

I've made some V-grooves on the crack area and will try out some TIG next week. Here in Malaysia we call them Argon Gas welding.
Now what would i need to inform the welder to weld it TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas )and not MIG (Metal Inert Gas)?

As much i read on TIG , it fulfills my intention of not taking off the scales.
(Part of the reason they have very poor workmanships, well almost equal to damaging your wood piece) so i have to live with the fact the top portion of the scales will be burned off. Hence i will do some sanding and cleaning once it's done.

Back to the question, how do i make sure it's done TIG and not MIG?:confused:

Jay
 
Jay,
When you did the V grooving, were you able get to the bottom of the crack?
If so, was it rather shallow?
The reason I ask is that if the cracks are shallow enough, I would just file/grind the handle keeping the present shape, but removing the crack.
Welding always induces changes in the metal, and doing it with the scales attached will likely make for contamination in the welds. When hot the laha will go liquid and run.
As Wovoka stated removing the scales is the only way you can be sure you have gotten to the bottom of the crack. If you do that and find the crack is shallow enough, you would be better opting for a reshape of the handle and skip the welding. If the handle is large enough you may even come up with a better feeling handle. I have reshaped many a handle from HI to make it a more comfortable size and to make the wood /horn look its best.
Welding should be a last ditch fix as you can come up with more problems than you started with.
Good luck with the fix and GO SLOW! :thumbup:
 
ArchAngel,

You've got a point there.
I will try to grind to the point i can't see the crack.
Hopefully it will be shallow.
 
JayGoliath: I agree with ArchAngel. I also forgot about the laha. If you do not remove the scales you will not know how far the cracks are across the width of the tang. If the cracks are not completely removed, when the knife is put under stress, there is the possibility of the cracks running, and you may end up in worse shape than when you started. You can use a file to remove the cracks, That may be better than a grinder anyway, as you will not be inducung any heat. As opposed to welding, you may try using something like JB Weld to fill the void you created by filing out the cracks, there by eliminating any heat issues introduced by welding. Gorilla Glue could be used to substitute for the laha glue.
 
Jay Goliath, I agree with all the other men that you Must Remove the scales, which is Not that hard and if you are careful, you will not damage them in any way, just use epoxy to put them back on. Best of luck to you.

The TIG WILL burn up your scales if you don't remove them.
 
So JayGoliath, how did it go? Have you attempted the weld?

I personally would not have done anything. There is a lot of metal in that tang and it isn't uncommon to have small inclusions in steel when it is forged. Chances are good that the cracks are superficial and represent no danger to the knife. I would simply keep an eye on them to observe if there was any change in their size after use.

Andy
 
I would simply keep an eye on them to observe if there was any change in their size after use.
Click to expand...

To Andy and everybody's 0.02 cents, i decided not to weld.
Choice was made right after a rather extensive testing on the tang. I attempted to chop a huge log and i just kept pounding the blade.
The next best thing was- once done with the cleaning, the temper lines building up across the blades came right out with the application of mineral Oil.
I think i had just toughen up the blade. Those lines are just AMAZING!
Like what Yvsa said before, test it out and TEST IT HARD the 1st time.
I noticed the cracks on the handle wasn't as bad as i expected and it instilled a strong confidence with the ASTK.
I love mine even more now.

Nevertheless, i did file the crack to V-groove and check just how deep the crack went to.
The one closer to the bolster went off after 2mm of steel removal whilst the other are still visible. I then applied super glue onto the grooves and the glue sank right off into the deeper cracks. Of course this is to "seal" off the depth of the cracks.
Sanded off the excessive glue and then applied beeswax to the wood. Another layer of mineral oil and now it's battle ready.

Will post some pics of the chopping and finishing later. Just got off the World Cup Final on the tele.
It's 6.32am Malaysian time. Congrats to the Spanish Armada! Si, Se Puede!

Again, my utmost respect and appreciations to everyone here!
:)
 
Last edited:
PICTURES GALORE!

You can see the tempering lines running wild across the blade. This is beautiful!

IMG_4720.jpg


Massive 1/2" thick!

IMG_4718.jpg


Notice the brown edge on the sweet spot. It's trapped dirt.

IMG_4717.jpg


Epoxy removed and V-grooved at 1-2mm thick. Used multiple filers to reduce damage on the wood.The 1st crack was gone but the 2nd one still stick around.
It's looking more like a hairline crack.

IMG_4703.jpg


Applied super glue.

IMG_4702.jpg


IMG_4698.jpg


Excuse the dried glue but you can see the cracks. Nevertheless, i whacked it real hard before on a thick log and it's pretty much indestructible.The crack didn't grow. I should update if there's any cracks later.
ASTK managed to convince me it's a workhorse.

IMG_4728.jpg


Amar Singh Thapa must be very proud of it!
IMG_4746.jpg


IMG_4743.jpg


IMG_4741.jpg
 
Last edited:
You know Jay, I wonder if you make some more grooves at the same spacing would it look nice? Like grooves for improving grip :)

Glad you liked your ASTK, handling yours makes me wanna get my own. Must keep this a secret from wife :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top