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Flipping!

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Thoughts please.....

I'm not looking to start finger pointing but I simply wonder whether flipping on this forum is something worth a little thought.

I've been quiet on the forum for a while, not due to any gripe but simply because I've been busy with life closer to home.

In that time what was a growing part of this forum has continued to, well, grow. I'm going to focus on GEC and their output as it suits this part of the forum. before I left you would expect SFO's to be flipped, particularly runs of TC's. Recently I watched as runs of the Esky Zulu were flipped for prices up to $325, custom prices. It now appears that GEC's own popular production runs are being flipped, something I hadn't really seen before.

Now my thoughts are, hey, we're in a free market right? People will pay what they're prepared to pay.... Fine but my only thought is, given how GEC's runs are limited it seems a bit unfair to those who genuinely wanted a particular pattern may have to pay over the odds because they weren't quick enough with their digit.

Also, I love GEC but I a also feel by inflating the price of their knives you are creating an unfair comparison with custom makers work.

Please don't think I'm looking for a bun fight here, I just think it would be worth garnering people's opinion. I'd really appreciate thoughts from those who moderate too:)

Sam
 
For the most part, people vote with their wallet. If there weren't a market for it, you'd see less of it.

Not my thing, just an observation.
 
I really like GEC knives but they are not worth what they are getting flipped for. How the market has changed lately has made me step back (as a user, not a collector) and reevaluate what I am doing. I personally have decided to stop buying production knives really. I know what I want and for the money, I will be going custom for now on. You get exactly what you want, made better then a production made knife. Flipping is just apart of any Hobbie to some extent and you have to do what is best for you. If I had piles of money, I would buy them up as investments, why not? People are going to pay what they have to at any given time for what they want......supply and demand at its best.
 
I don't mind the flipping itself. If someone wants to do that there are no rules against it that I'm aware of. Can't really hold it against them.

What depresses me is when a member appears to only be into knives for monetary gain. You know, when they contribute little or nothing to the forum other than price gouging. No posts showing off their latest acquisitions. No comments about how happy they are with their knives, etc. I still don't hold it against them because that is their prerogative but they are missing the point entirely.

Nice to see you posting again, Sam. Welcome back!
 
This thread's probably going to get shut down, sadly. It is something that needs to be talked about, but that is apparently not meant to happen here.

Is there a place (besides GB&U, given that this isn't about one particular transaction or user/seller/dealer) where opinions can be given on these practices? Given that BFC has the Exchange, the site is at least somewhat complicit in this very behavior (though obviously not responsible). At the very least, it should provide a place where we can vent some steam about this stuff.

I'm getting that same sick feeling in my gut that OP probably felt with the Esky run just thinking about how much over retail I'm going to have to pay to obtain a #14 TC Barlow this summer while flippers sit around biding their time with coffers filled with tubes they'll open only once for photos. I doubt I'm the only one.

Oh, and to address what some have already said and will continue to say, the artifice of "short runs" is exaggerated when your entire business model is built upon them. So, in the end, the manufacturers are stoking fires that the "free market" normally would extinguish, to the glee of the flippers.
 
Guess GB&U is the place after all. :D

PITCHFORKS AND TORCHES, EVERYONE! LET'S GET THE FLIPPERS!

fckoff.jpg
 
Wolves don't care what the sheep think of their hunting practices, so don't think that criticizing them in the forum will make any difference.

When something becomes a hotly sought-after and somewhat rare commodity, profiteering will occur.

If you want to buy GEC knives, you have to find a retailer who will take advance orders and get set up for whatever sort of notification system they have, and be willing to move fast to lock in what you want. Then of course you don't get to see the final product until after you have committed to buy it, so hopefully it looks like what you had hoped.

GEC could increase their prices until they discovered the point where supply equals demand, rather than let someone else skim all of that extra profit by flipping their items.
 
Thanks for people's thoughts before being popped into a dusty corner:)

This forum is hardly a dusty corner as you like to refer to it, you would know that if you read through a bit more. In terms of flipping, it not only happens with the beloved traditional styles of our fathers and grandfathers, it happens on a regular basis with every kind of item. You may not be familiar, given your geographic location but, ammunition for a .22 rifle used to cost about $3 a box, it went to almost $30 or more per box, the same brand and count. Every hobby from collecting knives to motorcycles suffers from this practice, we've seen it here first hand as well as the many threads about it with various perspectives involved.
 
Wolves don't care what the sheep think of their hunting practices, so don't think that criticizing them in the forum will make any difference.
When something becomes a hotly sought-after and somewhat rare commodity, profiteering will occur.
If you want to buy GEC knives, you have to find a retailer who will take advance orders and get set up for whatever sort of notification system they have, and be willing to move fast to lock in what you want. Then of course you don't get to see the final product until after you have committed to buy it, so hopefully it looks like what you had hoped.
GEC could increase their prices until they discovered the point where supply equals demand, rather than let someone else skim all of that extra profit by flipping their items.

Don't give 'em any brilliant ideas. At least not 'til the #77s are run. :cool:

Seriously, you speak sensible truth. And the market will dictate the price, ultimately. GEC could play a part, perhaps dictating to dealers certain per-buyer limits or even rationing the knives even more severely to dealers who bulk-sell new runs. I imagine there's no real impetus for them to do so, however, since they still indirectly benefit (via reputation and word-of-mouth advertising) from the flipping of their knives. Ultimately, the only people who are butthurt about it are those of us who can't slap a few grand together on command to buy a set of knives we didn't have many months of advance warning about.
 
I want to know if there's a thread where we can name people that do it. Since this started in the traditional thread, there's one particular member who I refuse to sell to because he buys strictly to flip knives on eBay.

You guys probably have seen him jump on the SFO's and other hard to find knives within seconds......he literally just bought a 2014 Forum knife not too long ago for a really great price. It's now on eBay with a starting bid that's $70 higher. This is the 4th one I believe he's done this with. Not to mention all the others knives.

At what point does he become a dealer and need that membership level?
 
This forum is hardly a dusty corner as you like to refer to it, you would know that if you read through a bit more. In terms of flipping, it not only happens with the beloved traditional styles of our fathers and grandfathers, it happens on a regular basis with every kind of item. You may not be familiar, given your geographic location but, ammunition for a .22 rifle used to cost about $3 a box, it went to almost $30 or more per box, the same brand and count. Every hobby from collecting knives to motorcycles suffers from this practice, we've seen it here first hand as well as the many threads about it with various perspectives involved.

Brother, you likely know my pain of being a shooter who prefers .45 ACP for a sidearm. :D

I want to know if there's a thread where we can name people that do it. Since this started in the traditional thread, there's one particular member who I refuse to sell to because he buys strictly to flip knives on eBay.
You guys probably have seen him jump on the SFO's and other hard to find knives within seconds......he literally just bought a 2014 Forum knife not too long ago for a really great price. It's now on eBay with a starting bid that's $70 higher. This is the 4th one I believe he's done this with. Not to mention all the others knives.
At what point does he become a dealer and need that membership level?

I imagine this would be the place -- people are named here all the time, regardless of their participation in the forum overall. I also wonder if perhaps the strict criteria regarding selling at the gold/platinum vs. dealer levels might not need some revisiting, but that's way beyond my (un)pay grade. :cool:
 
Amen avoidspam!

I'm quite tired of GEC and all the hoopla, SFO's, and secret pre-ordering, not to mention the "flipping" that you refer to. This isn't how I like to buy a knife. I rarely buy a GEC knife anymore and could really care less if I ever bought another one. I'm having a ball collecting and using CASE brand knives and I don't have any of the aforementioned issues to deal with. Gotta love a good old fashioned CASE knife!

My opinion and my dollars...
 
I'd like to name the person I'm speaking of but don't want an infraction for doing so...
 
I would hate to see GEC raise prices, as an international buyer. I think they can only move up by a small margin anyway, and the #98's proved that.

Fact is, a lot of the demand is because of the idiosyncratic manufacturing processes. Making a whole bunch of unpopular patterns just because it takes your fancy is good for those that can, but it's not a business model most companies could indulge in. Sooner or later hard times hit and they start producing whatever they can sell. What we are seeing is therefore novel and interesting to observe.

GEC could spare their customers some pain and do longer runs of popular patterns. This would make the flippers think twice about buying up all the knives!
 
I'd like to name the person I'm speaking of but don't want an infraction for doing so...

Wait for a mod to confirm, or PM one (we've already had one graciously take part in this thread as it is :eek:) to be certain. I can't imagine it would be a problem here, though.

Amen avoidspam!
I'm quite tired of GEC and all the hoopla, SFO's, and secret pre-ordering, not to mention the "flipping" that you refer to. This isn't how I like to buy a knife. I rarely buy a GEC knife anymore and could really care less if I ever bought another one. I'm having a ball collecting and using CASE brand knives and I don't have any of the aforementioned issues to deal with. Gotta love a good old fashioned CASE knife!
My opinion and my dollars...

I have a Case, a GEC and an Arthur Wright in my pockets at this very second. The Case and GEC are both in competition for my "knife of 2016". You can make all the false equivalences you want between companies that run in the dozens vs. the tens of thousands, or cry all you want that you bought a slightly gappy Soddie Jr. on fleabay and now you'll never carry anything but a Farm & Field, but both collectors and users love Case and I can't see that changing any time soon.

P.S. Since you seem to mostly post in the Traditionals forum you're probably aware of the few long-term Case-related threads running and active. If not, definitely check them out.
 
Thanks for people's thoughts before being popped into a dusty corner:)

Interesting subject .
This thread getting jettisoned from the Traditional Forum is a great example of why I spend so little time there anymore .

Ken
 
As long as civility and respect are primary, this can be a fruitful discussion. We aren't out to stifle discussion, rather finding the best fit for specific topics can be tough. Especially when there are emotions tied to it as has been the case in previous situations.
 
My feeling is that although there will alway be a medium for flipping (Ebay etc) this forum should not be one of them. RevDevil, You have highlighted other examples in other fields as if in sympathy. You are part of the solution:)
 
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