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Flipping!
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Flipping? Just a part/aspect of a free market. I see no problems with it.
The winter after Sandy Hook, I picked up a Ruger Standard and other treasures by flipping .22LR cartridges. Most times my ammo was gone while in line waiting to get into gunshows. When it's luxury items like knives or ammo, go for it if you can make it worth your while.
Mike those are my sentiments. After buying more than my share of higher end modern knives I realize that if I put a knife up for sale once the deal is made, it's none of my business what the buyer does with it. I owned several Mayos over the years, all purchased direct from Tom at his table price. They were relatively rare leftys that he seldom makes anymore. I sold two to a good friend at Tom's price plus my shipping costs etc, but if he resells them at the going rate ($2000+), I won't shed a tear. They're his to do with as he wishes. I don't buy at secondary market prices, I vote with my pocket book.
I was once standing in line waiting to get into a concert and watched two kids going up the line asking folks to sell/buy tickets. They were buying from one person and selling to someone else further down the line. I doubt they were selling for less than what the were buying them for. Edit: I meant this post to follow leghog, not Jerry. I have bought from Jerry at a very reasonable price and sold it for the exact same price.
on_the_edge
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The root of the issue is the desire for more. Some folks want more money, some folks want more knives, and some folks just want more of a chance to get whatever it is the captures their fancy. I got it. I have no problem with it. However, it does beg the question, "When is enough...well, enough?"
I will not get on a soapbox nor will I sit in judgment of others in whose shoes I do not walk. Everyone is different and to me, that is ok. Nobody is more right or more wrong for being who they are. You cannot let a transaction between two parties, a seller and a buyer, make you unhappy when the parties themselves are perfectly fine with the transaction. I understand that is not always easy to do, especially in regards to something that you have a true passion for. If you let it continually bother you though, eventually you will be bitter or crazy or both. No thanks.
I will not get on a soapbox nor will I sit in judgment of others in whose shoes I do not walk. Everyone is different and to me, that is ok. Nobody is more right or more wrong for being who they are. You cannot let a transaction between two parties, a seller and a buyer, make you unhappy when the parties themselves are perfectly fine with the transaction. I understand that is not always easy to do, especially in regards to something that you have a true passion for. If you let it continually bother you though, eventually you will be bitter or crazy or both. No thanks.
trevitrace
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And thanks to wonderful people like yourself, stopping by any sporting goods store to grab a box or two just for plinking on the weekend is still impossible because the shelves are empty.
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ok...flipping does occur. Don't like it and don't feed it. And it will continue, can't help it occurring...or is there? Mike says it is none of his business once a knife gets sold, new owner can do what he/she pleases...but there have been ideas to curb it, slow it down some, get more knives to more hands.
Although the flip side is that then it may "make" more flippers. I got in on the email notification of two dealers for the Mustang, and early enough that I could have purchased one or more from each site and profited...if I wanted, the temptation is obvious with such a popular/limited knife.
Solutions vs. Exacerbations
Although the flip side is that then it may "make" more flippers. I got in on the email notification of two dealers for the Mustang, and early enough that I could have purchased one or more from each site and profited...if I wanted, the temptation is obvious with such a popular/limited knife.
Solutions vs. Exacerbations
gonebad395
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And agian wake up earlier he did and made a profit kudos to him. They are his to do whathe wants to with. I buy up 22 ammo like crazy I don't sell it but I buy it off the shelves. Why because I won't pay that over priced price so I work and get it for a good price. And to tell you what if I want to sell it I will without a second thought. I shoot all the time with my kids and I am no where near worried about running out. You could do the same.
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The people who are angry about flippers raising the price, are not just looking for a good cutting tool, they want a high demand item that can be easily resold, at a later date for a profit. It has a lot to do about competition for investment quality knives, that go up in value, and not just about pride of ownership.
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:thumbup: Great comment, Tim.
I've been a coin collector for many years. I started before the "investment" crowd really ruined collecting for several years. Things are better now, but I have been priced out of everything I used to collect. I've learned to appreciate other types of coins.
I'm passionate about knives. I have collected for 30 years and used much, much longer. I can very easily go overboard in my purchases. I keep saying to myself, "Keep your eye on your goal." I don't have to own everything I like, as much as I want to.
When I see a knife being flipped (with in hours of being sold out) for an outrageous sum; I pass on after a chuckle and saying to myself, "yeah, right, I'm not paying that."
"Caveat emptor" - Let the buyer beware.
kaotikross
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Don't worry too much, there are flippers who get caught "holding the bag" when the market falls out on a particular item and take a loss also, as in any other speculatory endeavor. The smarter ones will hedge their bet by owning a spectrum of flippable items, but I highly doubt many are doing it as full-time employment unless they're very, very good at it. I hit auctions and then sell a lot of "junk" at flea markets, and I cannot count the times I've thought something was "gold" only to have it sit unsold for long periods. Flippers are counting (hoping, praying) for a quick return, and sometimes they get it, sometimes they won't. It's not all wine and roses, there's a skill and craft to reselling. I can guarantee you there's collections of beanie babies covered in dust that the purchasers wish they'd never seen, and this is no different.
Seconded. Unless someone's asking for $20 "for packing materials and shipping fees" domestically, I don't much mind the added cost of a person-to-person shipment. Every time I hit the PO to ship a knife I eat that $7 cost; it's just part of passing 'em along, ultimately.
It's those clowns who buy a knife Monday at $100 and then put the same knife up on the Exchange or fleabay Tuesday for $150 (regardless of additional shipping) who probably need a good beating.
(Jeez, this thread took off overnight. Catching up...)
^ Agreed OTE! FWIW: I fall into the "wanting more knives," category!
I always seem to see a different model I want to try out, & I'm always interested in learning how certain models are made & different blade steels. Some of the knives I buy here I keep, some I don't...either way, this hobby has been a losing proposition for me. I make a few bucks on certain knives, but mostly I always end up taking a small loss. Regardless- it's nobody's freaking business what I do with my knives here (except Spark & the Mod's).
As for the few people on this forum, OTE; you know the ones whom always seem to be incessantly whining at other people...
unfortunately for all of these like minded people, their glass will always be half empty. This place would be such a peaceful & harmonious place without these trolls.
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I feel like this post should be quoted for shameless sensibility. :thumbup: (Even if it was written by the guy who railroaded me into buying a Wright lambsfoot.
)Except it's an international game. There is no "free market" involved because people are funding these purchases with any number of extramarket sources of income. Perfect example: I am personally aware of a knife collector with dual citizenship who is famous on fleabay for selling knives in America at rather large markups over market (some of you may guess who I'm talking about; he is rather fond of "Buy It Now or Best Offer" listings where his BIN price is generally 200-300% of fair market value and sometimes up to 4x more than other listings for the same knives). His primary source of income: The dole. Since his sales are occuring in another country, he is using government money to fund his flips and walking away with "free profits".
That's not "free market", that's subsidized theft.
So yes, I'm aware that many flippers are simply playing "the market" and doing so with varying degrees of success. They're free to do it, and I'm free to complain about it in a forum with many sympathetic ears. It also doesn't change the fact that simply throwing up your hands and chalking it up to "free market" economics is a BS cop-out and at best a half-truth.
And this is why you're getting every dime of my hard-earned money for the Beer Scouts upcoming. Kudos and thank you, Mike. :thumbup:
Given the number and timbre of your posts in this thread, and the frequency with which you utilize the Exchange since May 2015 versus simply posting in the forums about your interest in the hobby, you seem to have every bit the agenda on this issue as most of us do. It just points in a different direction.
Don't sit here and "whine fowl[sic]" about those of us who are utilizing the forum for its intended purpose. The fact that the mods moved this thread to this sub instead of merely locking it legitimizes the content herein. Perhaps you should readjust your perspective on "whining" instead of making pithy one-liner apologist replies.
And, in the end, that's the purpose of this thread. It's a way to get the word out that the hobby is being pushed in an ugly direction by "free marketeers" and those who are taking advantage of that socialism in other jurisdictions to push the "common man" out of the hobby, or off the pursuit for a favored pattern. Sure, TC Barlows might be insanely popular, but in the rush to justify (and even applaud) flippers it seems nobody is taking into account the typical middle-class collector who might want one of the best production versions of his favorite pattern without having to pay custom knife prices. Or, even worse, they are taking those collectors/users into account and actively deciding to screw them so they can fund their Hinderer or Bose purchases.
It will undoubtedly drive a wedge between future generations and the hobby, and while this might not be such a concern for modern folder collectors, it could easily spell doom for the traditionals market. That, ultimately, is why people are having their say about this issue now.
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gonebad395
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Yes you can complain and yes you can disagree and yes you can choose who you buy from. Just like the flippers can buy a knife for a price and sell it marked up. Telling someone they can't do something because you feel it's unfair is just as wrong as them flipping just the other side of the table. I'm not a flipper and I don't buy from flippers it's their item or items to do with what they want. Just because they got it first dosent mean you have rights to it at the price they bought it for. If you didn't get it at the low price you have 3 choices 1, buy it at what they are asking for it. 2, DONT BUY IT! Or 3, wait for another one to pop up cheaper. I don't get where policing a flipper is anymore right then them flipping.
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Nobody is advocating for a strict "policing" of anything, just spreading the word and looking for some common sense mitigation. You are clearly trying to move the goalposts here to protect what I have to assume is a lucrative income stream for you. That's fine and all, we're here to share opinions. You are willfully ignoring most of the premises that this entire thread is based upon, including the manufacturers turning everything into short runs or SFOs, dealers (not you, Mike
) cutting deals with middlemen to hand over huge batches of limited knives at retail (or less!) so they can go pump the price up 150% or more on the secondary market (guess what -- that's called "price manipulation" and in many jurisdictions is a crime), or other questionable practices leading to artificial increases in the supply/demand curve (see also: the recent snafu regarding the snakewood-handled Vipers from GEC). So, no, this isn't a cut-and-dried issue as you would love to make it out to be. There are many nuances and scenarios which play out each time that help enable the bald-faced flipping we have all seen.Also, making snide comments and implications about other posters for simply disagreeing with you only serves to show your character in the end. Keep that in mind.
Isn't it fun having to buy massive amounts of ammo in bulk (inviting the ire of the already-paranoid federal government in these days of nutjob cops, federal officers and security guards who are licensed to carry already) just so you can reduce the per-round cost enough to justify going out to the range for a couple hours?
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I haven't read through the entire thread yet, so forgive me if this had already been mentioned. I do see the inflated prices in the exchange, and get a bit frustrated. While I haven't been around long, I do appreciate the honest majority of members here, that sell in the exchange for a fair price. Especially knowing that a profit can be made on an auction site elsewhere. Those members alone, make this forum a great place to hang out. Just my positive input on this frustrations situation.
gonebad395
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Lmao are you truly calling me a flipper you have to be joking
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