For all the scythe guys (and gals)

cool. Not sure about their flipping the scythe. a little bit of showboating I guess. I've used one since I worked at an historical farm in Sturbridge MA. We interpreted that a good worker could mow an acre a day. We also sharpened on a hand-cranked wheel. I now use one made by Scythe Supply in Maine.
 
Yup, fun film. I know at least one member here (hint: she's in the movie) might let out an exasperated sigh to see it posted here.

Coop, the twirling is fine. As long as you don't let go with your left hand while it's up in the air. Them kids had scythes in their hands since they were very young, and they got the feel for them, like a kid who grew up playing hockey can do crazy things with a stick and puck. I've seen the twirling done in person so I can attest to it's impressiveness =)

You should look into getting or making a wildwood snath. The scythe supply snaths are not very good. I have one in the shop that I confiscated from a friend (friend's don't let friends use scythe supply snaths. Or Marugg. Or Johnny's. Or.....)
 
G-pig said:
Yup, fun film. I know at least one member here (hint: she's in the movie) might let out an exasperated sigh to see it posted here.

Coop, the twirling is fine. As long as you don't let go with your left hand while it's up in the air. Them kids had scythes in their hands since they were very young, and they got the feel for them, like a kid who grew up playing hockey can do crazy things with a stick and puck. I've seen the twirling done in person so I can attest to it's impressiveness =)

You should look into getting or making a wildwood snath. The scythe supply snaths are not very good. I have one in the shop that I confiscated from a friend (friend's don't let friends use scythe supply snaths. Or Marugg. Or Johnny's. Or.....)
Click to expand...

it works fine for me. Never had a problem with it.
 
Steve Tall said:
For those interested, the full video (25 minutes) can be watched here:
http://www.ket.org/cgi-bin/cheetah/watch_video.pl?nola=krvis_000115&altdir=&template=




Well, the same could be said by those who got a Fiskars axe as their first axe and are satisfied with it.
That's fine, but I think that they don't know what they are missing.
Click to expand...

It's not my first scythe. Its not like I was recommend it to anyone. With all due respect there was no back up to why the scythe supply snaths are bad.
 
Last edited:
cooperhill said:
It's not my first scythe. What is wrong with what I said. With all due respect there was no back up to why the scythe supply snaths are bad. I'm not about to buy another scythe based on these comments.
Click to expand...

You don't need to buy a new snath--just make one! :)

But I agree with both sides. The Scythe Supply snaths are nearly the worst on the market next to the fairly generic steel tubing ones of various make, including ones like the one that Lee Valley carries, etc. --HOWEVER you can use them just fine. They're just not the best, and the closer to the ideal you get the more pleasant the work is. And since making a snath for a continental scythe can be FREE then as long as you have the time, tools, and inclination it can be managed without too much trouble.

That being said pretty much everyone knows by now that I prefer the American style anyhow. :D
 
cooperhill said:
It's not my first scythe. What is wrong with what I said. With all due respect there was no back up to why the scythe supply snaths are bad. I'm not about to buy another scythe based on these comments.
Click to expand...

Nothing's wrong with what you said, sorry I wasn't clear. If someone's happy with something, it's fine. There could be other options that would be appreciated more if they are tried. True, nothing was said to back up our claims, so I will give some details:

For European-style scythes, one example of a non-ergonomic snath is one with grips that are essentially straight pegs. These results in some strain on the user's wrists and hands that is not present with an ergonomic grip. Peter Vido's design for scythe grips (that are currently used on the snaths sold by Lehman's and ScytheWorks) are somewhat flattened instead of round, which results in better control with less tight of a grip (the concept can be illustrated by imagining using an axe that has a perfectly round handle). Second, the inside surfaces of the grips are flat, for the finger pads to rest against, while the rest of the grip is curved, which feels better and having more control. Third, instead of coming out at 90 degrees, the grips are angled outward (when looking straight down at the snath), which mimics the natural angle that the hands and arms want to be at. Fourth, in addition to being angled outward, the grips are angled downward somewhat, to mimic the natural angle that the wrists would have at rest (without having to flex them to a certain angle to adapt to an unergonomic grip).

The result is a pair of grips that fits better and gives better control without having to tense muscles and otherwise conform the body to the tool. And this is just the difference in grips.

If you are satisfied with what you have, fair enough, but as with axes, a side-by-side comparison could be eye-opening.
 
The right angle grips are one thing, but since on a lot of Austrian pattern blades I see have tangs that are tilted downward towards the point (not pointing, as would effect the hafting angle for example) this tilts the grips forward even more. That results in grips that are not even right angle, but are tilting forward and pointing upward. Not very nice to use.
 
This raises a question--what did Elliot Fishbein (founder of Scythe Supply) actually used for his personal snaths up until his unfortunate death in 2002.
 
After Peter Vido read this thread, he wrote up the following comments. (Please don't take offence at this, cooperhill; it is not so much directed at you, as Peter merely expressing his frustrations that while he has put years worth of his time and energy into trying to help people obtain/make better snaths than are readily accessible, and still not "getting through" to most people... He is only intending to help people here; keep that in mind.)
 
Sparrow--I think you forgot to post the comments? :)

Honestly I'm surprised that single-gripped snaths aren't more common as a mass-produced style since it seems to me that it would be much more simple to make a satisfactory yet economical "one size fits all" adjustable snath in that style than to make a two-gripped type. The quality of the standard fare on the market is rather...disappointing, for sure. I know Botan at 1SR is nearly done with an improved version of his prior snaths. Should be interesting to see the results.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Sparrow--I think you forgot to post the comments? :)
Click to expand...

Nope, just had to leave the computer right then, before I had a chance to post Peter's comments. Sorry about that.



From Peter now:

I second the attempt already expressed within this thread that satisfaction with design/performance of a tool is always in relation to some reference of experience with other versions of the same tool.

Now to be specific -- if an owner of Scythe Supply. Marugg, Johnny's Selected Seeds scythe version tells me that they are 'happy' with their tool, I know that their state of bliss would be quite disturbed by experiencing a scythe I could put into their hands. Barring some exceptions of staunch patriotism (e.g. FortyTwoBlades) I'd bet $1,000 + (you name the stake) that my piece of (often otherwise discarded or at best burned) branch for a snath would cause a revelation, were you to be completely honest and unbiased… Any takers?


cooperhill said:
With all due respect there was no back up to why the scythe supply snaths are bad.
Click to expand...

I have explained at length what it is that is "wrong" with their principle design, plus went a step further to outline ways to improve each of the various snath models widely sold and accepted as "good", within their respective limits. It can be found here: http://www.scytheconnection.com/adp/docs/retrofitting.html


FortyTwoBlades said:
This raises a question--what did Elliot Fishbein (founder of Scythe Supply) actually used for his personal snaths
Click to expand...

One of my "wildwood" snaths. He also asked to borrow 15 other snaths (each different, but all embodying the same design principles) in order to "professionally photograph and study them". Well, the 'attempt' got highjacked by pure business concerns -- to copy/imitate the design features on a commercial scale would make the products too expensive to be profitable. It is as simple as that, and Eliot wasn't shy about admitting it, at least to me. At that point he felt he no longer needed my help -- and he was right. Armed with the direct contacts for the blades and accessories -- which I shared with this confessed 'harbinger of the Cooperative Scythe Network' via the electronic world (we had no computer at that time and no inclination to learn to use one), he went on to fulfill his goal of becoming the #1 scythe seller in North America. While they were in dire need of funds, he bought out all inventory we had supplied to another potential member of 'The Network' -- the Organic Growers / FEDCO of Maine and intended to do the same with the Marugg co. plus one other smaller competitor (no longer in existence). His sound business approach worked -- today there are several thousand people 'happily' swinging their blades on Scythe Supply snaths…


cooperhill said:
Not sure about their flipping the scythe. a little bit of showboating I guess.
Click to expand...

Once upon a time (and only in a few select regions of Austria) this seemingly 'showy' twirl had an actual social function. Somewhat akin to mower's yodelling -- the early morning sun's reflections upon the well-used shiny bales could be seen from afar. Imagine looking down the valley where homesteads creep up extremely steep slopes and seeing that your neighbours, a mile down the road, are now finishing their spell of mowing.
Nowadays this function of the flip is obsolete. But, is adding a touch of entertaining twist to what may be referred to as 'work' somehow 'stupid'?

-- Peter Vido
 
Last edited:
Sorry for all the convolutedness of posting Peter's comments... something was going on when I tried to add them, perhaps BladeFourms didn't want anything that controversial posted here?
 
Last edited:
Very interesting. Years ago I bought a European style straight scythe from a company called Plow and Hearth I believe. The company started by selling scythes and other homestead tools but later sold more decorative yuppie type stuff. At the time, the company literature slammed the North American style as awkward and heavy and the straight snath as superior. I am rethinking this and I'm going to start looking for an old scythe to restore and try out, even though I only mow a small forest opening once a year.
 
Peter Vido said:
Barring some exceptions of staunch patriotism (e.g. FortyTwoBlades) I'd bet $1,000 + (you name the stake) that my piece of (often otherwise discarded or at best burned) branch for a snath would cause a revelation, were you to be completely honest and unbiased… Any takers?
Click to expand...

See, that's the thing--patriotism has nothing to do with it for me! The American pattern and method work exceptionally well for my mowing conditions and personality. The key is, just like with the continental European scythe, to have a properly tuned unit of good design and quality, and used with proper technique. And no doubt I would be extremely impressed with a unit of Vidonian make and would, in fact, very much like to get my hands on one. As I often assert, both scythe patterns are lovely tools. I just prefer the American pattern for the bulk of my uses. :)
 
Peter Vido said:
Barring some exceptions of staunch patriotism (e.g. FortyTwoBlades) I'd bet $1,000 + (you name the stake) that my piece of (often otherwise discarded or at best burned) branch for a snath would cause a revelation, were you to be completely honest and unbiased… Any takers?
Click to expand...

See, that's the thing--patriotism has nothing to do with it for me! The American pattern and method work exceptionally well for my mowing conditions and personality. The key is, just like with the continental European scythe, to have a properly tuned unit of good design and quality, and used with proper technique. And no doubt I would be extremely impressed with a unit of Vidonian make and would, in fact, very much like to get my hands on one. As I often assert, both scythe patterns are lovely tools. I just prefer the American pattern for the bulk of my uses. :)

That really is crappy about the Scythe Supply snath situation. I realize that most retailers, with rare exception, want to put out an inexpensive snath, but I strongly feel that, with good and thoughtful design, a solution could be found to make at least an acceptable snath that hits the price point manufacturers are shooting for. Again, I imagine a single-grip style would make the most sense in terms of economy without a hefty sacrifice in the quality department.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top