For anyone that dyes leather black.

O

Omega Leather Works

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Jun 13, 2007
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If you haven't stumbled across the dye tips video by SLC I thought I'd pass this along.

When you dye leather you have pigment and a vehicle to get that pigment into the leather rather than the pigment just sitting on the surface.

The first thing is that you need to thin your dye. Fiebings alcohol and Pro "Oil" dyes need it! When you add alcohol, you give the dye more "vehicle" to penetrate. If the alcohol dries before it pulls the dye into the leather the pigment will remain on the surface and get wiped away.

The next thing is to make a little mix of dye and a leather conditioner. I used Lexol before because it's what I had, but I've switched to Fiebings Leather Balm. You don't need a whole lot of dye in the mix. I simply pour about two tablespoons of conditioner into a cup, then take a small wool dauber with the (thinned) dye and mix the two together. I apply this mix to the leather after an initial coat of dye. Wipe off the excess pigment before applying your mixture.

The conditioner has a much longer dry time than plain dye, and after the initial coat with alcohol/dye, your leather should drink in the mix.

I'm still testing this, but the results look very promising. The leather looks as good as my drum dyed leather and that's saying a lot.

Feel free to add any dyeing tips. I'll post pics of the dye job later.
 
Interesting, but the extended "dry" time of Pro Oil dye lets it penetrate and even out very well. In fact its sometimes painfully slow. Dont dis the "oil" in pro oil dye. It is oily in feel, but its actually a glycol which slows the curing of the dye exponentially, its amazing actually. And honestly, would you buy a pro glycol dye or a pro oil dye? I put my bets on pro oil dye.

Stohlman in one of his books explains how to enrich the cure time in alcohol based dyes, he used high grade mineral oil. He simply dipped the dauber (yea dauber, thats another sore spot with some) in a little mineral oil and then into the dye. It really does lengthen the dry time and helps it to even out before it dries out. This was before the pro oil dyes. And yes I tried it and yes it works, very well with those hard to apply dies like green and blue. Never tried it with tan as I always use pro oil dye.
 
The only oil dye I've tried is red and it's fantastic. My Kelly Green is spirit based and it's lovely, but it takes too much to get an even coat which simply means that it ends up darker than I'd like at times. I'd love to try the same green only in the "oil" formula in order to see the difference.

Thanks for explaining what, exactly, is in the oil dye. I've read several times that it doesn't have oil in it (Rusty from SLC may have pointed that out in one of the videos as well), so it's nice to finally know for sure.

Mineral oil would work on the same principle. They mention in the video that any conditioner would work, so that makes sense.

Dwayne, I believe you have done far more experimenting with dye than me. What do you use to clean your leather with before dyeing? I'm using water and alcohol, but I'll certainly consider switching on your advice.

I just looked at the piece I'd dyed earlier and it really does look great. I put a couple of coats of Tan Kote over it and there's no crocking at all. It's a bit shinier than I'm used to, but I'm pretty happy with it.
 
My late friend and mentor Dave Cole used Wood Bleach. A formula intended to clean wood also does a fantastic job of cleaning leather. Its basically an acid so if you use it thin it more than the prescribed amount and do not use too much.

Also, denatured alcohol does a great job, just dont over work it you can literally take everything off the surface and make it unsuitable for finishing. Same goes for simple rubbing alcohol, but it has a few more issues. I use denatured alcohol more often than not because its a bit safer than the wood bleach.

Fiebings makes a leather cleaner as well and it works but again its uses some pretty scary chemicals.

A good rule of thumb, if it evaporates almost immediately, avoid it. If it burns on contact with skin, avoid it. If it contains carcinogens, avoid it.

tan kote is nice and all, so is bag kote, but I stick to the simple wax for the most part. The one time I went to tan kote I got a few leather items back from cracking. Never again. I still have a full bottle. Wax lets the leather breathe and is replaceable by the customer when needed. My opinion only and my uses only, I dont want to hurt feelings because I dont agree with their ways and means. :) That and I just dont like shiny, glossy, leather work.
 
Dwayne,

What kind of Wax do you use? Carnuba?

No shit? Mineral oil huh? I have taken to liking Oil dyes for sure - but still use spirit based dyes. I love the look of both for different reasons. But oil is certainly more even.

Strig - did your source mean "Atom Wax and Leather Balm" when you described his "Conditioner"?
 
Actually, I think it was a Fiebings product called 4 way, or something like that. I'll go grab a link to the video. Should have done that at the start.
 
Here's the video-

http://youtu.be/NSqLqBtNvRA

I use the Balm w/Atom Wax. Excellent product so far, but I've used very little of it. I'm still in the phase of testing all the chems. I like this stuff and the Tan Kote that I bought with it, but I'll never be without neatfoot and beeswax/coconut oil.
 
Talfuchre said:
Dwayne,

What kind of Wax do you use? Carnuba?

No shit? Mineral oil huh? I have taken to liking Oil dyes for sure - but still use spirit based dyes. I love the look of both for different reasons. But oil is certainly more even.

Strig - did your source mean "Atom Wax and Leather Balm" when you described his "Conditioner"?
Click to expand...

For most of my work I use the Atom Wax, its fantastic stuff and penetrates so well. Every now and then I get a request for more water resistance and I grab the Aussie Leather Conditioner and the daughters hair dryer, a few coats and lightly fanning the dryer and its well absorbed and a nice sheen to boot. I did one inside and out for a military fellow from over seas that gets wet a lot and so far so good ten or so years later. :) And the stuff smells so good!

Yea, mineral oil is a heavy product so use it sparingly. The pharmaceutical grade stuff is rather thick, I hear there are lesser versions that are a little thinner that I'd like to try. I've done quite a few pieces with this trick and it works but the finish can be spotty if you dont apply it very evenly. Stolhman referred to it as a quick overlapping circles with the dauber. The overlapping is the key if you do it evenly. Its my trick to get nice even saddle tan nearly every time.

Funny mentioning neatsfoot, I have the original quart bottle I bought way back. Trying to rejuvenate some well sweated leather armor. It kinda worked. Salt sweat does not do leather any good at all, and dem boys sweat!
 
I've always cut the oil dyes 50/50 with denatured alcohol except for black which I use at full strength. You can get interesting patters and effects with daubers but I dunk everything and let sit, It takes a full day to dry that way but the color comes out great. It uses a lot of dye that way though.
 
Agreed on using the black full strength, it takes a few coats as it is to go a good black. The first one inevitably goes gray.

I'm just about through my test shoulder of through dyed black leather and so far its good stuff, not as versatile as regular leather but its sure less messy! That, and the cost is a bit higher than I am used to paying.
 
One thing to consider is the concept of diminishing returns. When does that pre dyed leather become worth near twice as much as undyed leather? The raising prices of dye and leather really need a calculator to figure out, your time is worth something, you just have to figure out how much.

I'm in a gray zone, the gives and takes are so close its scary.
 
Aye. I get the feeling that all of these costs should be figured out.

As of now, I'm not getting paid much for my time. I know that reads obnoxious to the full time maker. It's not that I'm undercutting anyone, but that I'm slower than most of you guys.

It's a little scary to actually figure out the finances, but I know I'm screwed if I want to keep doing this and don't. :(
 
There's so much to think about in a business, especially these days, just remember one huge rule " You Cannot, and I mean CANNOT try to screw the IRS out of their share" Income is income no matter how you try to justify it, they will find you out sooner or later and its not worth the trouble.

After that its all sugar and lollipops! :D
 
>Omega, I hate to drag this post back to life but I'm curious (as will future searchers) how your testing ended up. I have been side tracked for a little while but still need to make some black sheaths. Are you still supporting your test with the dye mixed with the leather balm technique after the initial thinned dye coat?

I called Springfield today and got the girl who wasn't much help, then called Tandy he said I need to use some Neatsfoot first before my USMC, then seal with a satin sheen. The options with this are mind numbing and everybody has a different answer. I think I even got a different answer last time I called Tandy.

I have a crap load of scrap I guess I will start running my own tests. I just need to know what to buy. Should I get some Oil black and some leather balm? If yes what do you recommend to seal or finish it?

thanks a bunch
Chris
 
Yes, I'm definitely doing it as described. I have had my best results consistently doing it this way.

Leather Balm with Atom Wax is a solid product imo, however, I don't use it much beyond the dye mix. I would suggest a 4oz bottle if you just want to try it.

Oil dye is best. I've picked up more since I first wrote this and I find it superior. Doesn't cost much more. Check ST Leather for good prices. SLC if you have a license to get their best prices.

I've found that dye in any capacity stiffens leather. Since nearly all of my work is dyed I prefer beeswax/ coconut oil over any other finish. I believe I made a thread on how to emulsify the two. It softens the leather a tad. I don't like Tandys sheen products. Tan-Kote is better for me, but wax is best for my work. Everyone has their own favorites.
 
Agreed. :) I use both USMC and Pro Oil Dye depending on my intent. Though I've never encountered light spots on the surface of the dyed leather before, it is a concern. I usually take a cloth and denatured alcohol and clean the leather well.

My finish of choice is Leather Balm with Atom was as well. Not fond of Tan Kote, especially on pouches where the leather will flex. I had to fix a few balisong sheaths after using tan kote on advice. Super sheen, to my taste is awful stuff. I do use satin sheen as a resist though, its great for that.

Stohlman, in one of his books does suggest using mineral oil to help the penetration of alcohol based dyes, I can see neatsfoot doing the same job. The ratio is a mystery though, I'd caution adding oil in very small increments.
 
Oooohh I forgot, I do use Sheen as a resist. I use it with antique gel. Dye the base color, apply resist, wipe antique into the stamping and wipe off being careful not to remove the antique.

Tandy Sheen is an acrylic finish and works pretty well as a resist. Only problem is that after the dyeing and coats of Sheen the leather is very stiff. I only do it on the front panel of stacked sheaths.

If anyone knows a better way, post up!
 
Don't know if its a better way or not. But I use Bag Kote as a resist for antiquing. I like the idea of using the same product for everything, resist and finish. I spread an old t shirt over two fingers very tightly and put a light dab on there and wipe it on. I shoot for an extremely light coat. I might do two if I'm antiquing. I've found that the secret (for me) with antiquing is to daub it on and wipe it off quickly. Don't scrub it around trying to get it down into every nook and cranny. Its the scrubbing that screws up the resist job. Just use enough anitque paste that it gets down in there by itself. I wipe it off with a crumpled up paper towel. Let it dry a bit and buff with a paper towel. Then another very light coat of Bag Kote and you're done. You caught me in that one pic, Strig, I antiqued that bowie sheath and also a small vertical pancake. The bowie sheath was on purpose the small vertical pancake was in self defense. After completeing the sheath and wet molding it a white something developed on the surface of the leather. It looked like it was caked in a heavy paste wax only it wouldn't rub off. I was perplexed and called Weaver. They were perplexed too. After seeing a sample they replaced the leather. I ended up rebuilding that sheath and throwing that antiqued one away.
 
Dave, is BK acrylic?

Funny you mention being swift with the antique. Everything I'd read (on lw.net) was to leave the gel on for 24 hours before buffing off. I found out for myself that the method didn't work for me. Best get it off asap.
 
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