Forged in fire, highs and lows

[JTknives]

Like many of you I'm a forged in fire fan and watch them all as soon as thy come out. Some are good and some not so but I watch any ways because it's entertaining. But with that said the last few really showed a drastic swing. One of my favort episodes this season was #5 (kora sword). The level of craftsmanship that went into the final projects was amazing. But ever sence then till now it's been going down hill. Colmanating in tonight's episode #7 (the boar spear) of which I was quite disappointed. Up to the point where the finalist started there projects it was ok but then it seamed to really take a turn. The two spears that where turned in looked mediocre at best. The craftsmanship and attention to detail seamed half assed. One was Damascus but then used a pipe for the socket and the lugs. The other had a nice shape with hamone lines and a forged socket. The lugs looked rather crude and where just booger welded onto the forged socket. I know there is lots that happen that does not get shown but usually a failure at the home forge is showed which would explain a rushed project. But thy showed nothing even hinting to this. I was hoping to see people splitting the billet and drawing out the lugs and then drawing out the spear and then forging the socket. But no, it seamed more like a medieval junkyard wars. Sorry for the rant, I'm done now.

 

[Matt Rochester]

I like and watch the show every week. I will agree that it has taken a turn for the worse. The episode where they made them make a hammer first and then forge their blade was silly. They didn't even give the smiths more time. I wish they would get back to more known steels, give a little more time and see what these folks could turn out. Maybe all the top shelf smiths that would go on the show have already appeared and now we are getting the average joes so to speak. I would also like to see some more extensive testing.

 

[john april]

i agree it was one of the lesser exciting episodes. i wish they would make knives for the final challenge instead of spears and goofy swords

 

[Busto]

The final two competitors seemed less well equipped at their home forge compared to previous competitors. It would be unfair to expect either of them to produce a "Claymore" which we have seen from better equipped smiths. My guess would be that the selection committee try's to pit smiths of equal skill and home forges to level the playing field. This episode shows the reality of part time smiths working in less than ideal conditions on small budgets. I guess what I' trying to say is that if the show kindled a spark for a newbie to start forging don't become frustrated because you don't have all the big equipment in a journeyman's shop it took him years to get there.

I can't believe they forked over 10K and title of Forged in Fire Champion for either of those crappy spears... Wonder how the past champions feel about that?!!

 

[Kevin McGovern]

Friends are always surprised to find out I don't watch the show. I would, but I don't have cable. I have caught bits and pieces and it does spark people's interest. A side effect is everyone assumes I'm a straight up blacksmith.

 

[kuraki]

I'm with Busto. I think they actually do a pretty good job of getting a level group in there.

That said it torques me when it comes down to the finalists and one of them made an obviously superior blade in the first portion, and when both finalist submissions are a little questionable, he ends up losing for some little benign reason.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I thought the judging tests were more fair, but the final project was far below what had been given in the previous episodes. Allan did a good job of forming a socketed spear, but I think he ran short on time and just welded on some lugs at last minute. The other spear started out great ... and then a pipe was added. That is fine for making a spear for fun ... but for a $10,000 competition??? Had he flared and rolled a socket, and welded on damascus lugs, he would have won hands-down.

I think they gave it to the right person based on the authentic production techniques, but both spears were far less than the damascus masterpieces from the last few episodes.

As has been said many times, the show is not aimed at knifemakers. One thing that this episode did was make a lot of knifemakers say, "I could make a spear as good or better than that one." Maybe we will see a lot of spears show up in shop talk.

 

[AVigil]

"But did you die?"

Honestly, I only watch to be entertained and entertained I was.

People watch a MMA match and claim "If they only did xyz they would have won" well like MMA if that is all it takes everyone can climb into that ring and give their own advice a shot.

Forged in Fire will probably be casting for another season soon so people can show how they would do it.

And I will watch it hoping to be entertained

 

[bodog]

I don't like that they call the episode winners "champions." Obviously there are considerable gaps between the skills of some "champions" and others. I'd be a little put off if I was Salem Straub and they put my winning blade next to some of these other "winning" projects and said they're all championship material. It makes the title of "Forged in Fire Champion" pretty meaningless.

I don't believe they can get into calling anyone a "champion" until they let the guys have a month to work on something at home with ample time to get what they need to produce what they're asked to produce and that they compete against known and verified quality competition.

I have a hard time believing that some of the episode winners would stand a chance against real smiths and I don't believe many real smiths would stake their reputation on a show like this unless they already have a solid reputation that won't be damaged by losing to some of these guys.

Other guys that may be awesome but relatively unknown I don't believe would risk their potential future businesses by losing to a guy who smashes mild steel out of a satellite dish with a carpenter's hammer and does all of his grinding with an angle grinder.

Or doing some crazy san mai/damascus blade that took three full days just to make the billet and then getting sent home because of a small inclusion where his competition wins even though it was the ugliest, most rudimentary thing that looks like it came from some Pakistani junkyard but didn't have any obvious faults.

Or looking like a fool because a judge slaps the side of your sword against the target while getting a good hit with the competitor's sword.

Or being a bladesmith and then getting asked to make a spiked shield.

Or spending a long time building your reputation by using only quality materials and dialing in great heat treatments of great steels and then being forced to use random shitty metal with no way to get a good heat treatment and making you look like you don't know what you're doing.

Or working in a 150 degree studio against three other guys with only one power hammer.

Or knowing what it takes to make a legitimate blade and then going against some backyard blacksmith who knows almost nothing about great knifesmithing but him winning simply because his completely retarded and useless serrations on a chopping knife look better.

As an aside, what's the deal with cutting watermelon as a sort of function test? Is that some kind of inside, behind the scenes joke? They don't actually believe cutting a watermelon in half is any kind of function check, do they?

I've been an avid watcher of the show since it came out but it's getting to the point where I don't really care about seeing it anymore. They need to step up and allow the bladesmiths to make good pieces using good materials. Allow the bladesmiths to create presentation grade weapons and tools that really showcase what makers can do. Bring some kind of validity to the champion title. If the shows finalists' final project still sucks, don't let anyone win. They need to have some standards so guys can be proud of winning the title.

I wish that they'd have the final piece be the exact same for everyone from every show. There are episode winners and then at the end of the season have all the episode winners come together in a two hour season finale where all they do is test the season's winners' pieces and whoever comes out on top is the season's champion. They test the blades to destruction and go into the deeper aspects of blade making and question the makers about grain size, the types of steel necessary for different applications, differences in heat treatments, etc. All the judges are ABS master smiths or blade sports champions. The season's regular shows are for flair and the general public, the season finales are for blade junkies. They test what makes a good bladesmith rather than simply test a single piece.

 

[Ken H>]

I watched the spear episode last night - "medieval junkyard wars" is what it looked like. Had the winner took his side grinder and smoothed out those welds a bit it wouldn't have been so bad..... and just why did he have a bow in the shaft? Both "blades" looked pretty good, but the final result.... ugh! Had the pipe used been welded to the spear blade, then make the joint smooth and disappear..... and that "cross bar" of just split the pipe and bend it back? Ugh!!! Looked like something a..... Well, just looked crappy!

I guess I'm amazed that somebody who had the skill to make the nice looking Damasus spear blade wouldn't have done better.

rant mode OFF {g}

Ken H>

 

[Willie71]

I love/hate the show. It's entertainment. what I find most annoying is the first question people aske me now when they find out I make knives is "have you seen forged in fire?" The conversation always ends up being a discussion about what is left out of the show and the amount of knowledge that is needed to heat treat a blade properly. The flaming quenches are getting old too. Why the hell do thry have 24h epoxy on the shelves?

My favorite part, beyond seeing people from here compete, is seeing what other smiths shops look like.

 

[Kevin McGovern]

BoDog,

If they did all that, the only people that would watch the show would be bladesmiths. Like most "reality" competition shows, it's main goal is ratings. Compressing the work that would take any competent smith weeks to perform into an hour makes for more failures, more drama and more tense scenarios. And that sells advertising. We know enough to not take the show as an education on how to make a blade (although I think that many new makers do, and are sorely disappointing to find out otherwise). I liken it to a war movie that is an hour and a half of non-stop action. If you just showed a bunch of troops hanging out, doing laundry, reading and seeing action maybe 2% of the time, it would be more realistic, but would make for a really boring film.

 

[Salem Straub]

It doesn't bother me, having been a winner, to see some other guys win with blades that are maybe a bit crude... it's a game show, with big limitations on what a guy can do given the time frame and often completely novel nature of the home project. Just getting through it takes not only skill but a lot of luck.

One of my favorite parts too, is seeing other guy's shops. That's always a fun opportunity.

As for flare-up quenches, guys are often doing that on purpose just to be flashy now. I've not seen it particularly encouraged by the production crew or anything.

It seems FiF is having a mixed result- on the one hand, guys are thinking that perhaps anyone could make a knife and so could they. This leads to an influx of new makers, at least short term. On the other hand, I have been getting custom orders from people who are first-time custom knife buyers. It's because of the show. I welcome the opportunity to introduce people into the knife world, educate them a bit, and make them a nice blade. Also I am getting more requests for private classes, so some of those folks that see the show and want to try it out are having the good idea of getting first hand instruction.

All I can say is there's a few episodes in which I'm very glad I didn't have to participate in the final round- who knows what kind of terrible cobbled-together $&#@ I might have had to turn in!

 

[Busto]

A former co-worker has 2 teen aged sons that started watching the show and talked their dad into helping them get started. He gave me a call to see about coming over to show his sons what I do and let them ask questions about knife making. My friend is a journeyman machinist with 25 years experience so he has tools and skills to help guide them so I thought sure.... They came by one Saturday afternoon and had pages of questions they wanted answered. WOW I was surprised at what information they had taken away from the show... They did not view the program as entertainment as we do. I have a very humble shop although I have some nice machining tools what I have for forging is very humble and they thought that I had a shop like what is on the show with power hammers and presses they were surprised that a lot of smiths have an anvil and hammers to do the work. I showed them my little gas forge and all my hammers and their eyes go wide because they didn't realize they would be doing most of their work on an anvil... My friend busted out laughing telling his boys nobody starts out at the top with all that fancy equipment... They still walked away with a positive attitude and are they are building a forge we'll see what happens?!!

 

[kuraki]

You're a class act Salem.

And that's one thing I do appreciate about the show. Most if not all the contestants have appeared to be class acts. No sore losers, at least in the final production of the show. So if they are creating drama through time crunches and 24 hour epoxy traps rather than drumming up personal drama a la Orange County Choppers or the like, I'll continue to watch and enjoy the show.

 

[Busto]

Salem, Congratulations on being a Winner! Your skill and efforts were certainly visible in the work that you turned in to be judged. It's good to know that the show is helping to increase your customer base and those wanting classes is an excellent way to pass along the knowledge and talent you possess!! Good on ya Brother!!!

As far as you turning in something crappy.... I don't see that in your nature based on what work of yours I have seen....:thumbup:

 

[Josh Rider]

When I saw them reveal the boar spear it was like seeing a price is right curtain revealing a pinto. Then a trombone playing waa waaaa waaaaaa.
But I have to say I was impressed with both of the spears functionally. They pierced through the boar wonderfully and Alan's spear almost cutting the boar in half was awesome. The last couple of shows have seemed a little rushed though.
And like others have said, I love shop vids.

Another thing the show is doing is introducing some very talented people that some of us newcomers may not be familiar with.
I'm sorry to say that until the show I didn't know who guys like Burt Foster, Jay Neilson, and Jason Knight were.

 

[Mitchell Knives]

The premise of the show is silly, but since it's the only knife making show on television, I still watch it. Oddly enough, my wife seems to enjoy the show more than I do. If nothing else, the show is getting people who would otherwise be unaware of custom knives interested in the topic.

 

[Ken H>]

You're a class act Salem.

I just felt that part could bear repeating - Salem is a CLASS ACT!! for sure.

And that's one thing I do appreciate about the show. Most if not all the contestants have appeared to be class acts. No sore losers, at least in the final production of the show. So if they are creating drama through time crunches and 24 hour epoxy traps rather than drumming up personal drama a la Orange County Choppers or the like, I'll continue to watch and enjoy the show.

The good sportsmanship has been one of the BIG positives to me about the show and the contestants. Great folks!

On OCC - I remember when they first came on, I was really looking forward to seeing them built custom bikes, and compare notes. I built a few "back in the day"...... then when all the manuf'd personal drama seemed to be the focus of the show, I quit watching.

Ken H>

 

[AVigil]

I have a hard time believing that some of the episode winners would stand a chance against real smiths and I don't believe many real smiths would stake their reputation on a show like this unless they already have a solid reputation that won't be damaged by losing to some of these guys.

There have been some of the best bladesmiths on the show. As thing go, some of them did not make it to the end.