Forging and its affect on carbon.

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Nov 23, 2003
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So, I know you can case harden steel by putting it in a carbon rich environment at temp for a specific ammount of time. This only increases the carbon content to a shallow depth.

What happens when you forge steel to the carbon content? I know that you loose an ammount of overall mass due to scale. How much ?
Does the ammount of scale loss corrlate to an ammount of carbon loss?
 
I saw where this one came from.

From what I understand, and I don't deal with it, nor want to right just yet, enough to really get a lot of detailed information-

you can add carbon over time, slowly, laboriously, by folding lower carbon steel over and over and over and over and over again in a carbon enriching heat. as far as I know for lower tech forging, that mostly means charcoal forge. But I'm really not terribly up on coal forging.

Without the folding, the best you can get, I think, is carbuerized case hardening.


I know little enough about this I should probably not even be typing this post. But I'm interested enough to learn a bit more.
 
Carbon migrates in hot steel. At forging temps, it migrates quite well. The surface is exposed to oxygen and the surface carbon becomes carbon dioxide, and thus leaves the steel. The result is a small carbon loss. This loss is fairly shallow, but with repeated heating cycles, a significant carbon loss can be affected, especially with higher temperatures. That is why forging cycles should be kept to as few as are needed.

As to adding carbon, it can be increased by exposing the steel to an atmosphere of low oxygen, and high carbon. This can be done in a special atmosphere oven, or by coating the surface with a chemical that will readily release carbon ( or nitrogen ,or boron) into the steel surface. This is a diffusion process, and the amount of diffusion is quite shallow. The total addition of carbon to the blade is very small, and only on the surface. If the blade was ground and sanded, all the additional carbon would be lost.

To my knowledge, there is no way to directly "Pound" carbon into a blade by general forging of a blade.
The techniques of adding carbon to low carbon steel and wrought iron were by adding a "flux" of carbon rich ash ( rice straw ash in the case of tamahagane, and coal dust in blister and plow steels) and folding the steel many times. The continued folding and incorporation of the carbon, plus its migration caused the steel to have a higher carbon content. The distribution was not homogeneous, however. The boundaries of the welds and the silicon slag create layers of higher and lower carbon content. This is the source of the hada in well forged tamahagane, and the pattern in wootz and similar steels ( and the fibers in wrought iron).
 
My understanding, (bear in mind I am not a metallurgist) is that it is possible to add carbon to steel, but doing so requires days of being held at the right heat with just the right conditions, and the end result is that if it does have carbon in it, it probably cost about $500 in fuel and time for a bar that you could pick up from Aldo for $20. Aldo's would definately be more consistent also.
 
I saw those threads :-(
Curburizing steel is done by sealing it in a container of powdered charcoal and holding it at heat for several days to a week, that produces blister steel, forging removes carbon as Stacy said

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