Forging: Hand vs Machine

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golok

golok

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Modern times means less tired hands for knifemakers in forging knives.
I presume that there are still knifemakers out there hammering away at metal to shape them into blades of the highest quality.

Then, there are the machines that help reduce the tedium of striking the iron a thousand times.

Herein lies the question: Is there a difference in human hands doing the work compared with the machine doing the hammering?

Or is it just a matter of saving time?

Personally, I think the hands of the man who holds the hammer can make a difference, although I am unable to say what are the crucial factors involved.

Perhaps a few of our hardworking learned colleagues can provide the answers.
 
"Is there a difference in human hands doing the work compared with the machine doing the hammering?" - Yes
"Or is it just a matter of saving time?" - No - not for me at least.

I would say that each person has to answer this question for himself. I've used machines and hand tools and have found that I do better work without machines. Matter of fact, I only seem to screw up my nice hand tool work when I put it on a machine. So, I abandoned my belt grinder for a hammer and file.

This saturday, I'm hanging out with 3 friends where we'll be making knives with hammers, files and charcoal forges powered by an antique hand crank. To us, the method is the art more than the product. That's just us. We never find any tedium in striking iron a thousand times. We do different styles. I focus on Frontier style blades. 1 friend does japanese style blades, the 3rd friend is a newbie so we'll see what style he decides to go for.

One last thing - your hands will get tired from holding a blade against a grinder belt, but trust me - chicks dig mighty blacksmith arms ;) ;)

Tim
 
Oh yeah - the hand tools required to make knives are also a heck of alot cheaper! Total tool overhead for a non-electric shop is easily under 2 hundred dollars for the first year and under a hundred every year after. No electrical bills - just charcoal to buy (which you can make if you know how). All you need is to buy steel (which you can get for free if you know how) and handle material (which you can get for free if you know how) - see where I'm going with this? :D :D

For me as a hobbyist/part-timer - hand tools are the way to go.

Tim
 
I have a knive that has been forged totally by hand and another that has had the initial forging done by power hammer. Both these knives are wonderful and I do not think that any quality differences can be attributed to what kind of forging was used. Even with the knife that had the power hammer used, the final forging to shape was done by hand.
 
There is a fellow in West Monroe La by the name of Bill Caldwell(Wild Bill &Sons) that used to make some fine knives.Bill made damascus and used a carbon steel called Hobsons Choice Extra Best. Dont know if Bill is still making or not, he sledge hammer forged his blades as he felt it was the only way to get a feel for the steel as he put it.
I dont know if a power hammer or sledge makes a better knife, the thought of a guy swinging a hammer to forge a blade sure seems like the picture of a bladesmith
 
Larry, you sure do get your point across without any waisted words, don't you? Personally I agree fully with what you posted.
 
For me, it depends what my favorite knifemaker uses. Now that may sound silly at first, but I'm serious. I trust the skills and abilities of my knifemaker, and if he says he's going to start forging using a Play-Dough Fun Factory, then I'd go along with it.

In a more broad sense, it depends more upon what one is wanting in a knife. If the finished product is the most important aspect, then the point is probably moot or close to it. However, if I place more value in the creation and concept of the knife, then I may feel more touchy about specifics of process.
 
The steel doesn't care, but I do. :) Just finished forging one Saturday and baptized it in blood when it bit me while I was forging the tang.

I could buy all the equipment and molds and just crank out drop-forged, cookie-cutter knives, but that's not me... But again, these are just my humble opinions...

I figure if I can make a great knife using non-electric hand tools, if I start using electric and pneumatic tools later on my knives will be all the much better.

Tim
 
Power hammers and hydraulic presses help the process along at a faster rate, but the real tool is knowledge. I hand forge all my blades because I lack the funds for the power tools, I would dearly love to have a press because of all the different posibilities it opens up when making damascus plus it knocks off a heck of a lot of time drawing out your billets to refold and weld. But I love the hand forgeing of a blade, to form the blade to shape, to thin the blade to length(distal taper) and to bring the blade to life with the shapeing of the bevels, to take a raw,plain piece of steel and make it into a beautiful working tool, now thats why I love what I do.
Now, do power tools make better knives, I don't know , maybe. but some of the best knives and swords out there today were all made by nothing but hand power.

Bill
 
To me forging is forging....Whether it be with a hand or power hammer in the creation of a blade.First even when using a power hammer you will still have to use a hand hammer to do all the final shaping and forming of the blade.I forged for years with out the power hammer and now my elbow lets me know that I should have used one years earlier.I was using a 3lb-4lb-6lb-8lb-and even a 20lb hammer to flatten and shape my round rod 5160 into blades,the power hammer just lets me flatten the stock and get it ready for the hand hammer.If a man has the knowledge to make all the extra tools and dies to shape a blade under the power hammer he will still be forging long after allot of us can't use are arm to swing a hammer anymore..
Like my wife said once stock removal is just cutting steel and grinding,but forging from a raw bar and creating the whole shape is a art in itself...
Sure hand hammering a billet of Damascus is a real joy and when you have that blade sized piece all shaped out that took a day or longer yo can be proud,but when your elbow hurts for a week afterwards then it is time to be just as proud that you have a power hammer so you can still make it..
Like I said..
Forging is Forging:D
Just my opinion..
Bruce
 
What you say makes a lot of sense, Bruce. I am sure that working with a hammer can be hell on the body. If using a powwer hammer can extend the work life of a knifemaker I think that is a good thing. As I pointed out earlier, I see no difference in the knives of makers that use power euipment to help with forging and those that don't. Some absolutely fantastic knives have been made both ways. Whichever way a maker chooses is fine by me.
 
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