Forging Press Build

T

Tokoloshe

Joined
Mar 13, 2022
Messages
8
Hey Folks,

Long time listener, first time caller. My name is Trevor, and I am a Bladeaholic.

Bottom Line up front: I am building a forging press with my electrical engineer father and would appreciate some confirmation on some key components of the press I am building.

I plan to build a 24.5/25 Ton Press based of Jim Batson's book and data breakdown.

I have a 5" diameter x 8" stroke cylinder and a 10 Gallon tank thus far.

I am considering this motor (Which is one Redbeard Ops recommended I believe)

VEVOR 5HP SPL Air Compressor Motor, 230V 15 Amps Electric Motor, 3450RPM 56 Frame, 5/8" Keyed Shaft, 1.88" Shaft Length for Air Compressors, CW/CCW Rotation at (https://www.vevor.com/single-phase-...utm_term=4587368679089580&utm_content=其它品类-PC)​

and this pump:

VEVOR Hydraulic Log Splitter Pump, 11GPM, 2 Stage 3000PSI Wood Log Splitter Pump, 1'' Inlet 1/2'' NPT Outlet 3600 RPM Aluminum Hydraulic Gear Pump, for Small Engine Mounting Log Splitters Snowplow​


and this control valve:

VEVOR Hydraulic Valve 2 Spool Hydraulic Joystick Control Valve 11gpm Hydraulic Directional Control Valve Double Acting for Tractors Loaders Tanks. https://www.vevor.com/hydraulic-con...alve-tractor-loader-w-joystick-p_010416714851​


I was pretty confident that I had selected appropriate components but when I reached out to Vevor they responded with "We checked with the technicians and found out that this product is only for air compressors and is not recommended for use with other equipment."

I would appreciate relevant data from the hive as to whether they will work or not.

Thanks in advance,

T
 
While I think that motor will work just fine, have you considered how to fasten the pump to the motor? I'd prefer a 56C face so the pump would be easy to bolt up to motor - perhaps something like this Amazon listing? B0BTH1NDRS It is a bit more expensive at $260 shipped. You did right by spec'ing a 3450 rpm motor as most pumps are rated around that RPM for full flow.

Perhaps something like this 16 GPM pump for $76? B0C5RCQVJZ That will give a nice fast 3.1"/sec no load speed.

Here's an adapter to connect motor to pump - of course making sure the bolt pattern fits your motor and pump: Again Amazon # B08V1YV985

Here are some calculators you might find interesting:
Ram speed: https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/calculators/cyl_speed.htm

Tons: https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/calculators/cyl_calc.htm

HP requirement: https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/calculators/motor_calc.htm

Remember the HP requirement is more toward the high pressure of the two stage pump. 1st stage is perhaps 500 or 600 psi for rapid no load movement of ram. The 2nd stage is the high pressure of 2500 (depending on setting) which is a much lower flow rate.

The item numbers above are meant as guides to see what's there. You might find better deals and more suited items at other places.

Red Beard's guide has very good info.

Ken H>
 
Gents,

Thanks for the comments, I appreciate your time and experience.

Ken, I appreciate you bringing the mount to my attention. Would you mind expounding on how the length of the motor shaft and pump are calculated when selecting a mount?

Also, what loaded speed is optimal without unnecessary risk of destroying your work? 2"/sec, 2.5"/sec, 3"/sec, 3.5"/sec?

Thanks again.

Cheers,

T
 
When I built my 30 ton, set to 25 ton press from the Batson book. I used Surplus center and Northern tool. I was happy with both and Surplus center has good calculators and technical assistance. Not sure if you have checked them out.
 
What happened to Jim Baston? As I recall, he was a bladesmith out of Madison, AL (or north AL). I talked to him once at a Hammer-in, probably 20-25 years ago.

sorry for the hijack.
 
The 56C is an NEMA electrical standard, it dictates the bolt pattern, frame and shaft size of the motor
Definately go with this motor style mount


I think the 56DC frame maxes out at less HP than that, but 143 goes higher and is the same bolt pattern.

There will be mounting adapters to bolt together motors and pumps for any reasonable paring.
E575_50d76275-5436-4916-a5cb-3feae9b1bd2f.png



Then mount the shafts together will lovejoy connectors or a different branding equivalent.
lovejoy-68514476175.jpg
 
Tokoloshe said:
Would you mind expounding on how the length of the motor shaft and pump are calculated when selecting a mount?

Also, what loaded speed is optimal without unnecessary risk of destroying your work? 2"/sec, 2.5"/sec, 3"/sec, 3.5"/sec?
Click to expand...
First, to help determine what materials are available to you, what part of the world are you in? You might add that to your profile, very helpful.

The motor shaft is a standard length (in USA for the 56C frame), and the pumps are pretty standard lengths. There's a spider coupling that connects the motor to the pump. This spider coupling will give an inch or so to adjust for shaft length. You'll have to do some searching for the pump to 56C motor mount. I looked and didn't see one on Amazon. Every adapter I found in the $20 range was for gas engine. The adapters for electric motor was in the $60 range.

For ram speed the 3 to 4 inch/sec range is good, 2 inch/sec works "ok". While I love to bash Coal Iron for their screw up on the 9 ton press they advertise as 12 ton, looking at their site can give some good ideas on ram speed and press design.

As I'm getting ready to post I see Count has added some good info on the adapter and the spyder coupling, Lovejoy being one well respected brand.

Count, what price did you find those adapters at? Any less expensive than the $60 adapters I found?

edit: I just did a bit more searching and found this one - do a google search on "M056354F : MAGNALOY 056 MOUNT USA4F17" on the onehydraulics site for $42 plus shipping.

Good luck and keep posting.
 
Last edited:
James retired from the Board of the ABS. As far as I know he is still with us ... somewhere.
 
Ken H> said:
First, to help determine what materials are available to you, what part of the world are you in? You might add that to your profile, very helpful.

The motor shaft is a standard length (in USA for the 56C frame), and the pumps are pretty standard lengths. There's a spider coupling that connects the motor to the pump. This spider coupling will give an inch or so to adjust for shaft length. You'll have to do some searching for the pump to 56C motor mount. I looked and didn't see one on Amazon. Every adapter I found in the $20 range was for gas engine. The adapters for electric motor was in the $60 range.

For ram speed the 3 to 4 inch/sec range is good, 2 inch/sec works "ok". While I love to bash Coal Iron for their screw up on the 9 ton press they advertise as 12 ton, looking at their site can give some good ideas on ram speed and press design.

As I'm getting ready to post I see Count has added some good info on the adapter and the spyder coupling, Lovejoy being one well respected brand.

Count, what price did you find those adapters at? Any less expensive than the $60 adapters I found?

edit: I just did a bit more searching and found this one - do a google search on "M056354F : MAGNALOY 056 MOUNT USA4F17" on the onehydraulics site for $42 plus shipping.

Good luck and keep posting.
Click to expand...
Ken et al.,

I really appreciate the responses, you guys are very kind to help. Thank you!

I updated my profile somewhat on your recommendation. I live in Florida, USA.

IRT the adapters - thanks for the redirect away from gas motor adapters and to Magnaloy. They don’t have a mount for the 56 motor frame so I will follow your advice and get a 56C.

The love joy connectors are on my radar-thanks for addressing the spacing question.

Lastly, thanks for dialing me in regarding ram speed. I will pursue 3-4”/sec.

Thank you again.

T
 
Isn't it amazing the gan engine adapters sell in the $25 range, while 56C adapters are in the $60 range? The least expensive 56C adapter I found was the "OneHydraulics" site referenced above for $42 (plus shipping).

Gilbert, a question here, why do you think the $250 pump you linked to is that much better than the $75 pump I referenced above? I do like the giving of pump specs, 1st Stage: 11 GPM@650 PSI and 2nd Stage: 2.9 GPM@2,500 PSI - this tells that up to 650 psi it pumps 11 GPM at 3600 RPM, then shifts to 2nd stage at 2.9 GPM up to 2500 PSI. That's pretty standard for a 2 stage pump and works good for a press allowing fast unloaded ram speed, then once the billet is contacted the pressure builds switching to slow speed for that last 1/4" or so of travel squishing the billet. That seems to be good for me.
 

T Tokoloshe ,​

What part of Fla are you in? If in NW Fla I'm just across the state line and would enjoy a visit if you wish to play around with my press to get more ideas on your build. sailingtoo at the gmail address.
 
Ken I don't have an opinion as far as that pump being better or worse than the one you linked. It's just the one I bought I can say the transition between stages is seamless. I'll also say pump, hoses and RAM where the places I was willing to spend money. Mostly I just posted those to show other places to buy things and some specs since I struggled with figuring out some of how things would fit together.
 
*5HP Electric Motor​
$ 260.00​
*Hydraulic Pump 16 GPM 2 Stage​
$ 75.00​
*VEVOR Hydraulic Valve​
$ 80.00​
Hey Guys, based on this discussion I selected these items which I believe will fulfill the motor frame decision (56C), RAM speed increase suggestion (3"/sec +) with increased flow rate to 16 GPM.

The next point of confusion is the Spider coupling choice. I see specs of 1/2"" diameter shaft with a 3/8"" key in the pump(above) which I can't seem to locate a coupling for and the motor doesn't list a keyway size(nor does my alternate pump). The industry standard seems to be:
  • 1/2" bore with 1/8" keyway and set screw on one coupling half.
  • 5/8" bore with 3/16" keyway and set screw on the matching coupling half.
My question is when selecting the spider coupling how important is the key size to selecting the correct coupling? (I've seen some references to folks matching the shaft but not the key size and resulting in issues).

(Lastly, I live in NW Florida near Destin - about 2 hours from Ken.)


Alternate: *VEVOR Hydraulic PumpVEVOR Hydraulic Pump 16 GPM Hydraulic Motor 2 Stage Hydraulic Pump Log Splitter Hydraulic Pump Wood Splitter Pumps Log Splitter Hydraulic Built Pump Hydraulic Wood Splitter Parts & Hydraulic Motor | VEVOR US$ 99.00
 
The shaft on a 56C motor is a standard size - don't think you'll have to worry about the keyway size, should fit. This is from a google search for standard 56C motor shaft size.

56C5/8" shaft diameter3/16" x 1-3/8" keyway size
The pump you linked to has a 1/2" shaft, and bet the keyway fits this spider (Amazon item #B01N4OK88K). The specs on this spyder show 1/2" bore with 1/8" keyway and set screw on one coupling half that will be right for the spider

The other end of spyder is 5/8" bore with 3/16" keyway and set screw that fits the 56C motor.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top