Forging Press Die Questions

adammichael

adammichael

Joined
Sep 13, 2004
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Lets asume for a moment that I am in the least bit qualified to do what i am trying to do, Okay?

I have decided to try and make my own forging press. I would love to buy one from Darren Ellis but i just cannot swing the money right now. I know it is more than worth it but i cant it at this time. I have a bunch of scrap structural available to me and im hoping i can piece one together.

I already got a ton of information from Mike Fitsgerald so in order to avoid bothering him to much i thought I would post this question here.

What are good dimensions for the dies? How long should the squaring dies be?

1" angle, 2 pieces upside down and about 4" long? Does that sound right?

What are the dies that you HAVE to have when you start out?

anywhere I can get some pics of the dies so I can reverse engineer them.


Thanks in advance for all your help

Michael
 
Michael, What dies you need to start out with depends on what your wanting to make. Most guys start with a set of drawing dies, a cutter die, and maybe a flatter die set. The exception to this would be if you intend to do any Mosaic damascus, then some makers use the squaring dies like you mentioned but you can also make Mosaic damascus with just the drawing dies as a lot of makers do with good results.
Good luck! Ron
 
Michael, Here is a couple of pictures of my press and the die set up. The first picture showes the Flatter dies and the drawing dies in the machine and the second one shows the bottom drawing die removed and the cutter dye in it's place. I've also included a picture of Fitzo's press with his lovely side kick of a bunce of years Nanc standing beside him and of course our very own Bill B----- Buxton with Buxton knives and Jim Rice with Rice custom knives. Hope this helps! Ron

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How big the dies are depends on how large your cylinder is (to some extent).If you are going to convert a 28 ton log splitter,the die plates will be made from 6X6" squares of 3/4 to 1" mild steel plate.The dies are usually about 4" long,and centered on the die plate, of course.The drawing die is a half round piece of 2" round stock (cut it in half and you have both pieces) 4" long.The flattening die has nothing but the plate,so you could say it is a 6X6" surface.The cut off die is usually the splitter for the log,with the upper die removed,going against the lower flattening die.Some other useful dies are - fullering,shouldering (for tangs),squaring,and specialty dies like ones to shape the halves for hawks.
 
Thanks for the info. very impresive press you have there, Mr. Duncan. I have a feeling mine isnt going to turn out as good as yours.:( I give it a try and see what happens.


I am interested in doing mosaic damascus and i am starting from scratch so i wont be converting a log splitter. I am using a prince cyl, 5" bore , 8" stroke.

What size should the squaring dies be? 1" angle and 3/4"?

thanks

Michael
 
Once you get your press built, make yourself a few different sizes of dies. The more square inches of die area you use, the less "press" you will achieve. Vise versa is also true (the less die area, the more "press" your machine is capable of) My press has a max of 35 tons (I generally run it at 25-28 tons to keep the line pressures down) My most used set of dies is a combination flat die set. The larger area is 6"x3"X3/4", the smaller area is 3X1 1/2x3/4".

If you've not used a press before, don't expect to take large "bites" when pressing steel. About 1/4" to 3/8" is about all you want to "squash" at a time. Trying to be speedy with a press only messes up your billets. The best way I can describe is that the press is for precision, while the power hammer is for speed.
 
Michael, because of the geometries of squishing cans, if you want to use squaring dies, it is well served to have them in close to 1/4"-1/2" increments down from the size can you wish to start with, IMO.

When you squish a can with squaring dies, the can likes to deform and squish out the sides. (Picture a square with two corners elongated and sticking out.) If not watched carefully, this can result in a distorted pattern from flip-flopping the deformed portion too much. It doesn't necessarily just squish back to the right shape..

The more control you have over not deforming the bar along the way, the better the little figures in the mosaic will come out like they started.

Others may differ, but that's my opinion, for what it's worth.

Ron, thanks for the foto, that was a fun weekend. And, as always, my gratitude for building that press for me. Bill, I thank you, too. Now, if I can only get well enough to get out there and use it some.... I have to drain the system and replace the filter housing before I can do anything. It was leaking like a seive the last use last fall... Damn that thing!
 
Forging presses are a great tool and I think every knifmaker needs two or three.

I recommend that you first locate good parts ,do not settle for second best you get what you pay for new is the best .
I try to get parts that are repeatable, repeatable in my world meanies I don’t have to deal with unknown parts .to incorporate in the process to produce a Constance –makes life easer is a must .
but not to you, you can find good parts at surplus center just make sure they are the parts that will work and they will work together do not under build when it comes to balancing the press be sure to get rated parts to stand up to pressure that your pump and motor will produce ,
They only saving that you should have in building is the labor which is the reason you have or will undertake this project I can understand that . Be sure you are a good welder or get a good welder to weld it up for you this is a must, machine that produces tons of pressure —pun intended – can break lose in a flash if not welded good .
Im not trying to paint a bad picture just use good common seance it can be the best tool in your shop and it can be fun hope you the best and have fun I would like to see pictures after completed Bowie
parts should run about 1400 if you shop around
 
Ron Claiborne said:
Forging presses are a great tool and I think every knifmaker needs two or three.
I recommend that you first locate good parts ,......
parts should run about 1400 if you shop around
Click to expand...
I have looked at your press's and they are outstanding, Thanks for the advise, I will follow it.

I was planning on an H frame made out of 6" x 4" x 3/8" wall rect tube. 1" Plate for the cyl. attachment at the top and bottom. I am drawing it in a 3D solid modeller so i will post some pics of the model on monday. Any feedback will be appreciated.

New prince cyl and new 13 gpm pump and a 5 hp motor, Does that sound good? Also, what is a good working height for the dies?

Thanks for your understanding

Michael
 
That should work.You will get about 2.5 IPS ram speed with that combo.If you can get a 16 GPM pump you may be happier,with a little over 3 IPS (the 11 GPM will get the same force,just a bit slower).Motor size is great.
Some quick checks for a 16GPM/5HP/5" cylinder combo are:
24.5 Ton at 3600 RPM when operated at 2500 psi max., 3.14 IPS ram speed
These are theoretical and should yield approx. 22 tons true forging pressure.So to get about 4 tons per sq.in. at the die,the contact surface should be no more than 5-6 sq.in.

BTW,the book by James Batson -Build Your Own Hydraulic Forging Press -(available from the ABS) is a great source for charts and info.
 
Mike Fitzgerald
Your welcome for the help building your Hyd Press and the trip down memory lane with the picture of the mutly looking crew that worked on it,with the exception of Nanc of course. Man i'm glad I was the one taking the picture that day or we wouldn't have been able to show it. LOL
Jim Rice and I got his press built a few weeks ago if I hadn't already told you. Ron
 
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