Fox Knives Combat Jungle Knife FX133 Field Review

@FCCBCT: Great review of a great knive!

mrclean09 said:
If you had to pick between this knife and the extrema ratio Ontos, which one would you pick?
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I would also consider the Lionsteel M7.

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FCCBCT has done a couple of videos on the Lionsteel M7, put me over the edge to get one, it is a freakin' beast of a knife!
 
mrclean09 said:
If you had to pick between this knife and the extrema ratio Ontos, which one would you pick?
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The Fox combat jungle and Extrema Ratio Ontos are two quite different knives i think. The common thing is that they are both large however, the ER Ontos carries more heft to it. Ok both are made from N690 Co steel alloy but the sharpened edge is diff on both knives. The HRC also differs slightly, the Combat jungle being slightly harder according to FOX. I prefer the convex edge of the ER Ontos over a straight bevel edge any day but the FKMD knife is lighter for lugging a long distance. The ER Ontos is better at hammering stakes with it. Although I have yet to use the Combat jungle in the jungle LOL, I think it would do ok as well. Certainly I had no problems using the ER Ontos. The Combat jungle is better at cutting up a carcass due to it's shape as apposed to the Tanto-like blade of the Ontos. The Combat Jungle has a skeletonized tang, the Ontos a full tapering tang, both more than adequate for real life duties. I ere on the side of the Ontos only because of that weird but very grippy and very comfy handle. The Combat Jungle is comfy too for a micarta scaled handlle. At the end of the day I grab either one for camping trips. If I was to go specifically hunting then I would of course take neither knife. Sorry for being a bit obtuse still. Hope that helps. Oh one last thing and it IS an influence for many. That is the blade shape. Many people that see the Ontos and feel it (not from images) think immediately "tool" whereas in my experience, the shape of the Combat Jungle def spells "knife", just a last thought.
 
Hi there! The Ontos is something I don't fully understand :). I had the opportunity to play with it a bit only once but, honestly, as a humble week-end hiker, this thing left me puzzled. I can’t call this a knife. Yes, it can speak tool… it spoke kind of spade to me :D. ER themselves, in fact, advertise it as a “survival system” rather than as a “knife”. The Ontos really had difficulties when it came to cut something. Digging, prying, etc. no problem at all. The cutting was just not its thing :). The bevels were having an incredibly obtuse angling and an insane thickness at the edge. I see you say this is today having a convex grind and this can be an improvement. When I played with it, some years ago, it looked to me having a kind of double bevel grind. Therefore I couldn’t even considered the Ontos a chopper or a kind of ax “surrogate”, I mean, it’s heavy like a brick (around 400g) so it should have had an advantage, at least for its mass, but, instead, it “bounced” (literally) on wood (hardwood), due to what seemed to me a completely “wrong” geometry :confused:. ER has on the market a “Ontos cousin”, the Selvans, which has a better construction and it looks it performs better (I have never tried it) but still looks rather ugly to me :D. The BCB survival kit attached can be found around 25 EUR on line, so, in principle can be attached to any knife, it's not something "special" :). Overall, the Ontos is not something I would carry on a hike. The issue being, for me, a proper tip is missing, together with a sound cutting ability and the weight - around 1 kg with sheath and all the stuff attached - is a bit too much. Just to chat a bit :).
 
The Selvans are said to be quite a bit sharper...

What you say of the Ontos, for a $700+ tool, is truly frightening...

Gaston
 
Herlock said:
Hi there! The Ontos is something I don't fully understand :). I had the opportunity to play with it a bit only once but, honestly, as a humble week-end hiker, this thing left me puzzled. I can’t call this a knife. Yes, it can speak tool… it spoke kind of spade to me :D. ER themselves, in fact, advertise it as a “survival system” rather than as a “knife”. The Ontos really had difficulties when it came to cut something. Digging, prying, etc. no problem at all. The cutting was just not its thing :). The bevels were having an incredibly obtuse angling and an insane thickness at the edge. I see you say this is today having a convex grind and this can be an improvement. When I played with it, some years ago, it looked to me having a kind of double bevel grind. Therefore I couldn’t even considered the Ontos a chopper or a kind of ax “surrogate”, I mean, it’s heavy like a brick (around 400g) so it should have had an advantage, at least for its mass, but, instead, it “bounced” (literally) on wood (hardwood), due to what seemed to me a completely “wrong” geometry :confused:. ER has on the market a “Ontos cousin”, the Selvans, which has a better construction and it looks it performs better (I have never tried it) but still looks rather ugly to me :D. The BCB survival kit attached can be found around 25 EUR on line, so, in principle can be attached to any knife, it's not something "special" :). Overall, the Ontos is not something I would carry on a hike. The issue being, for me, a proper tip is missing, together with a sound cutting ability and the weight - around 1 kg with sheath and all the stuff attached - is a bit too much. Just to chat a bit :).
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Hi, fair enough but the Ontos is not marketed towards a "humble week-end hiker" as you say you are. it's marketed towards exactly the opposite, and I reckon if you are not hiking into unknown (but not unmapped necessarily) territory then the Ontos is really not the knife for that person. I would also say the Ontos is for some experienced outdoors person who really understands what such a tool can do for them. I'm not sure when you looked at this blade but I can assure you the one I got directly from Extrema Ratio, was as sharp as i could ever want, cut like no tomorrow ( I mean cut, not chop, of course with it's weight it certainly could chop as well). It's a bit like saying the BMW XYZ is not for me as I only drive to the store and back. Don't get me wrong i'm not making comparisons between BMW and the Ontos LOL. My knife without a doubt came with a hand ground convex profile to the cutting edge. All ER knives are hand ground any that someone has that isn't and it's a machine made bevel is a fake or counterfeit knife, of which some very closely resemble Extrema Ratio models. So I'm not sure how your knife could be bouncing unless it was blunt and any knife if blunt will do that. The age old debate about the cost of ER knives is never ending but there are far more made in the USA brands equally expensive "for just a knife" "Expensive" is a term we all know is directly related to ones disposable income. No matter who you are. We don't say "Hey I can't see the point of the Ferrari" simply because we can not afford to buy one (again not suggesting u can't afford to buy an Ontos- or a Ferrari but of course many can't and there is simply nothing wrong with this either because that's how things are in the world we live in). While on price, which really is something I don't like to discuss, the Ontos is of course fully made in Italy, not by Chinese workers in a mass production factory. If one is happy exploiting Chinese for this then that's ok, each to their own. But here i digress. Ugliness has nothing to do with usefulness when it comes to knives as it is a purely subjective term and of course you are totally entitled to suggest it is an ugly knife. As to the Ontos's practical capability, I had it with me in the Australian outback and also the Australian tropical jungles for several months to test this model. At no point did I think I made a mistake bringing it with me and my assistant (who by the way did not have any knives). As I've said in many posts, the Ontos is not a fishing and hunting knife and there IS no one knife that does everything, hence the plethora of knives and the paradox of choice (of knives) out there.
Maybe you haven't seen my video review on the Ontos, [video=youtube;NvPCANfKxuo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvPCANfKxuo[/video]I'd say I showed my capability without awkwardness in the use of this blade in various scenarios of survival/wilderness camping (minimalist equipment).

FCCBCT
 
Hi! Thanks for the link to your video, nice to watch, as usual :). Now this is becoming a Ontos thread :D. I don’t know it’s OK. Worst case, please Mods, remove this.

I discussed the Ontos quite extensively several years ago in a few Italian knives/outdoor forums. At that time, the Ontos was out since some time and got pretty good coverage but the Selvans was not yet. The discussion involved week-end hikers like me :D and more professional outdoors people who could for sure understand way better what a tool can do for them. The discussion had been good for sometimes, people were bringing in sound arguments about why or not the Ontos worked for the intended use and shared their experiences and thoughts. A pass-around was organized and some people did some “tests” on their own. Unfortunately, the discussions screw up and became mostly price related, flames and eventually kind of hate towards ER. I am not a YT guy but I managed to retrieve some old videos shot by a forum member at that time. There were many more, by other members, I remember that, but likely have been cancelled and/or accounts were closed. Here is what I manage to find from those old threads:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr2bl-xlTpw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW91vKk8HKY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRoKrh-w64I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7w_hp5rG-E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SJ4H-JlQbg

I praise and respect ER as a reputable Italian company which design and produce good knives with a modern technology, invest in R&D and keeps qualified jobs in my country :thumbup:. I am far from being a fan boy, but I really like some of their models and like to talk about their products, many of which I managed to use. I think the BF series and few fixed blades are really good. Some others… not so much :D. I personally own a BF2 and a Shrapnel, knives I used (and still use), which lasted years and which I consider quality tools.

I have never talked prices here, just pointed out that attaching a 25 EUR survival kit to a knife and accounting for 1kg total weight doesn’t make it an “innovative” or anywhere “special” knife. Anyway it exist a quality dimension that is “fit for use” and another one that is “value for money”, both measurable quality features and opposed to “perceived quality”, which is way more subjective ;).

As a week-end hiker (and a rather seasoned engineer :)), I can point out what works for me or not in a tool, why, and I try to support these statements of mine by some facts. The videos here, show which the Ontos performance limitations were at that time, namely its inability in piercing, difficulty in batoning and difficulty in precision cuttings (carving, whittling, food prep, etc.). All these due, in my opinion, to design and construction “mistakes”. Overall, it’s my opinion, this knife has been designed with an unbalanced ratio between the “look” and the “function”. It can be some of these "mistakes" have been corrected with new production batches, as you suggest. What we can discuss, if we want, is how such basic knives performances (generally the result of built-in knife characteristics and generally given for granted in a knife :D) can be evaluated so differently by a “humble week-end hiker” and “experienced outdoors people who really understand what such a tool can do for them”. That would be quite interesting :D. Take care.
 
Herlock said:
Hi! Thanks for the link to your video, nice to watch, as usual :). Now this is becoming a Ontos thread :D. I don’t know it’s OK. Worst case, please Mods, remove this.

I discussed the Ontos quite extensively several years ago in a few Italian knives/outdoor forums. At that time, the Ontos was out since some time and got pretty good coverage but the Selvans was not yet. The discussion involved week-end hikers like me :D and more professional outdoors people who could for sure understand way better what a tool can do for them. The discussion had been good for sometimes, people were bringing in sound arguments about why or not the Ontos worked for the intended use and shared their experiences and thoughts. A pass-around was organized and some people did some “tests” on their own. Unfortunately, the discussions screw up and became mostly price related, flames and eventually kind of hate towards ER. I am not a YT guy but I managed to retrieve some old videos shot by a forum member at that time. There were many more, by other members, I remember that, but likely have been cancelled and/or accounts were closed. Here is what I manage to find from those old threads:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr2bl-xlTpw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW91vKk8HKY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRoKrh-w64I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7w_hp5rG-E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SJ4H-JlQbg

I praise and respect ER as a reputable Italian company which design and produce good knives with a modern technology, invest in R&D and keeps qualified jobs in my country :thumbup:. I am far from being a fan boy, but I really like some of their models and like to talk about their products, many of which I managed to use. I think the BF series and few fixed blades are really good. Some others… not so much :D. I personally own a BF2 and a Shrapnel, knives I used (and still use), which lasted years and which I consider quality tools.

I have never talked prices here, just pointed out that attaching a 25 EUR survival kit to a knife and accounting for 1kg total weight doesn’t make it an “innovative” or anywhere “special” knife. Anyway it exist a quality dimension that is “fit for use” and another one that is “value for money”, both measurable quality features and opposed to “perceived quality”, which is way more subjective ;).

As a week-end hiker (and a rather seasoned engineer :)), I can point out what works for me or not in a tool, why, and I try to support these statements of mine by some facts. The videos here, show which the Ontos performance limitations were at that time, namely its inability in piercing, difficulty in batoning and difficulty in precision cuttings (carving, whittling, food prep, etc.). All these due, in my opinion, to design and construction “mistakes”. Overall, it’s my opinion, this knife has been designed with an unbalanced ratio between the “look” and the “function”. It can be some of these "mistakes" have been corrected with new production batches, as you suggest. What we can discuss, if we want, is how such basic knives performances (generally the result of built-in knife characteristics and generally given for granted in a knife :D) can be evaluated so differently by a “humble week-end hiker” and “experienced outdoors people who really understand what such a tool can do for them”. That would be quite interesting :D. Take care.
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Hi, firstly let me say it was definitely not my intention to offend you re your experiences with the ONTOS. Certainly I agree it is ugly. Certainly it couldn't gut a fish if you tried (LOL); Just because your only hike weekends doesn't make you inexperienced either of course. I will def check these video links out of interest and the fact you went to the trouble of finding them. BTW my favourite knife from ER is the DobermannIV (that's another discussion. Also Thanks for your comments re the video review. Anyway I guess better not write anymore now as we will get kicked off this as it's getting off topic. I'll get back to you on those vids too thanks!
 
Ok first link, yes I have seen this ages ago. lousy performance at piercing a by what looks like HDPE drum. A must be able to do task for coastal survival, been there done that on some wild coastal areas in Australia to make a large water container.
Second vid , yes I think it had to be blunt. As I doubt that would be the case for the one I got. But you know as an engineer the base of those types of drums from the injection moulding is very thick and dense as the material suggests and I don't think my clip points would penetrate it immediately. But again maybe necessary for survival to be able to do this. BTW I think the DobermannIV is a better "survival knife" but we can discuss this at length later if u wish.

Chopping ok into pine no more than Douglas fir by the looks of it.
The atoning didn't count it's over sand, forgetting the dilatent properties of sand LOL.
 
I'll make a "coastal survival" vid the end of the year with it and see what happens LOL! Thanks for your input!
 
I finally can reply to this thread, since I now own (and have used) both of these fine blades.

I love Lionsteel products (have about 14 Lionsteel knives) and these two are no exception.

However, after owning and using the M7 for a long time, and now getting some bushcrafting/camping/hiking experience with the Fox CJK, my vote goes out to the Fox.

It handles MUCH (yes, MUCH) better than the M7.

Balance, weight ratios, shape of blade, handle feel, multiple grips, all add up to a more pleasing knife to use and abuse.

At first, I did not like the "not as pointy as the M7" thing, but since I usually have two other blades on me (a custom Gravelle and an Emerson Combat Karambit (hidden in pocket)) having a pointy bushcraft/camping knife for tactical (or piercing) reasons is not needed. Besides, holding the Fox at a certain angle would give ou enough "point" for Bushcrafting/camping purposes.

As a last-ditch weapon, the Fox is also easier to swing and CONTROL - something that wasn't expected until I have BOTH of them in hand.

TO sum up, I still think they are both awesome blades, great tools, and the M7 definitely wins out on looks, but the Fox is the one I am now gonna strap to my thigh.
 
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