FRN strength?

Tsujigiri

Tsujigiri

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I got a Delica 4 FFG after hearing everyone rave about this knife. Like many others, I didn't find it very exciting initially, but I've grown to really love it for its utilitarian ability. One thing really bothers me about it, though. I take apart all my knives just to make sure they're well-built internally as well as externally. When I took apart my D4, I found that the spring bar is housed in a FRN slot in the back spacer. The tension of the bar is so great and the FRN is so flexible that it bends the piece apart, making it extremely difficult to put the knife back together. It is kept in place only by a couple of FRN tabs sticking out of the side of the spacer and into the liners. Am I incorrect in thinking that the FRN will eventually crack or break under this pressure, leaving the knife useless? I really like my D4, and have been eyeing some of Spyderco's other FRN models, but this issue has made me think twice.
 
So I've heard... but I'm not going to trust a knife without knowing how it's engineered. And if I put it back together correctly (which I have for all of my knives)companies with that policy like Spyderco and Benchmade are never going to know. I'm pretty sure they just say that as a liability safety net, so they won't have to pay to repair a knife that some klutz has damaged through disassembly.
 
FRN is very strong. Flexible, yes, but tough as hell. As long as the knife is properly assembled, the tabs should never fail.

Paul
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My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Kiwimania ---- Spydiewiki
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twisted up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam
 
I have never heard of a Delica failing due to the FRN cracking or breaking in any way. Lockbacks are generally a pain to put back together. :)
 
Dr Heelhook said:
You automatically void the warranty if you take the knife apart.
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According to the warranty paper that ships with Spyderco knives and the Spyderco website, taking apart a knife does not void the warranty.

Yes I know about the thread on the Spyderco forum that says that now taking apart a knife voids the warranty. But that doesn't magically negate the warranty sheet that I received with the knife.

If you damage the knife then that is not covered under the warranty as it should not be. But if you take apart a knife and put it back together correctly then the warranty should not be taken away, especially when they sell rebuild kits for some of their knives.

The thing I worry about when companies have a warranty that states that you can not take apart a knife or you void the warranty, is that cheaper screws and fasteners can be used. If you tear up the screw taking it apart then they can just claim the warranty is void. If Spyderco tears up a screw fixing something they can just drop in a new one which the consumer doesn't have the option to do.

I have run into screws that strip out way too easy, not necessarily on a Spyderco, and feel that top quality fasteners should come on top quality knives.

Sorry to go on a tangent but this has been bugging me for a while.
 
This has been bugging me for a long while, so I might as well say it here. Warranties cover defects in material or workmanship. If you take the knife apart and put it back together, you have just replaced the maker's workmanship with your own, so the only thing left for the warranty to cover is a manufacturing defect in the material itself. Just because you can break it doesn't mean it is defective. Just because it can (and eventually will) wear out doesn't mean it is defective. And just because something can be taken apart doesn't mean you should. They use screw construction so that their trained technicians can repair knives if necessary, not so the ELU can take the knife apart. Most of the time, screws stripping out too easily are a sign of worn tools, improperly fitting tools or improper use of tools. After all, someone put them in without stripping them or rounding them out, didn't they?

As for the concerns about the durability of the design, I have to ask. Are you an engineer? Does your concern stem from a thorough understanding of the material and design? Do you believe the designers (at least one of whom is an aerospace engineer) overlooked something? What will it take to alleviate your concerns? I've had a Remington Nylon 66 rifle with a stock made of the same material for almost forty years, and it still looks new. I've had a first-generation Delica with an all FRN handle for about fifteen years that has been used hard with no issues. I've got a first run ZDP Delica that has been beat to hell with no issues either, but it has also never been apart.
 
Tsujigiri said:
So I've heard... but I'm not going to trust a knife without knowing how it's engineered. And if I put it back together correctly (which I have for all of my knives)companies with that policy like Spyderco and Benchmade are never going to know. I'm pretty sure they just say that as a liability safety net, so they won't have to pay to repair a knife that some klutz has damaged through disassembly.
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Yab put it succinctly in his reply. It's a pocket knife, not a roll cage for a funny car. I trust the design and strength of FRN handled knives, I have no reason not too.

If you sold knives that were precision engineered with 25+ years of improvements behind them, you would not be too happy people telling you they wanted to "double check" your work. It would be an insult of sorts plain and simple. I do not think any company should replace or warranty a knife that started off in 100% working comdition until the owner was visited by the Good Idea Fairy and decide to take it apart completely and was unable to reassemble it. Why should a company have to pay for someones ignorance or inexperience?
 
Wow, your method for putting the knife back together must be hell. I did that my first time, and it took forever. Now I put the knife back together super fast. There is a video on youtube on how to put it backtogether. You might want to check that out, next time you clean your Delica or any lockback.
 
RevDevil said:
If you sold knives that were precision engineered with 25+ years of improvements behind them, you would not be too happy people telling you they wanted to "double check" your work. It would be an insult of sorts plain and simple.
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No, I wouldn't mind at all. If the engineering is good, why would the engineer have a problem with someone looking over his work? As an engineer myself, I don't see why any engineer would feel insulted at someone checking his work. Most car companies have been around for much more than 25 years, but that doesn't mean that they don't make SUV's that roll, accelerators that stick, etc. There's nothing wrong with double checking.

Sounds like the FRN is perfectly adequate from the replies. I was just wondering, since I'm not too familiar with the material, and don't know if it weakens or dries up with time. Thanks for the replies.
 
kaotick said:
Wow, your method for putting the knife back together must be hell. I did that my first time, and it took forever. Now I put the knife back together super fast. There is a video on youtube on how to put it backtogether. You might want to check that out, next time you clean your Delica or any lockback.
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Hmmm, I can't seem to find that video. Do you have a link?
 
Tsujigiri said:
So I've heard... but I'm not going to trust a knife without knowing how it's engineered. And if I put it back together correctly (which I have for all of my knives)companies with that policy like Spyderco and Benchmade are never going to know. I'm pretty sure they just say that as a liability safety net, so they won't have to pay to repair a knife that some klutz has damaged through disassembly.
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The warranty is only void if you break something in the process of your excursion into the knife.

Will Ford warranty an engine that you take apart just because you were curious? :rolleyes:


Tsujigiri said:
No, I wouldn't mind at all. If the engineering is good, why would the engineer have a problem with someone looking over his work? As an engineer myself, I don't see why any engineer would feel insulted at someone checking his work. Most car companies have been around for much more than 25 years, but that doesn't mean that they don't make SUV's that roll, accelerators that stick, etc. There's nothing wrong with double checking.

Sounds like the FRN is perfectly adequate from the replies. I was just wondering, since I'm not too familiar with the material, and don't know if it weakens or dries up with time. Thanks for the replies.
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You are slapping a general "engineered" label on parts. Are you a knife engineer? Say you "engineer" parts for airplane wings. Someone who engineers ball bearings comes over and takes your wing apart because he's curious. Would you then trust the wing? It's the same principals. It's not about being insulted, it's about trusting the other guy.
 
My first FRN knife was a Gerber LST from the seventies and then when Spyerco brought out the Delica and Endura in FRN in the middle eighties I bought several over the years. A strong durable and light weight knife that held up great plus the FRN shows no wear or scratches like steel handles. You have to give Spyderco credit for continually improving the Delica and Endura models. Right now I am carrying the Gray FRN UKPK and just love it and with lite weight don't even know I am carrying it. IWB carry out of site of prying eyes and also keeps from snagging things. The Slipits are great idea and work so well without the lock and are simpler to close while still being safe. The FRN that Spyderco uses will out live the blade with reasonable and common sense use. I love FRN!

RKH
 
I would be willing to bet that FRN is more indestructible than a lot of the higher end materials used in more expensive Spydies. The FRN models adhere to the KISS principle a bit more than a lot of the more expensive models.
 
dirtpig67 said:
I would be willing to bet that FRN is more indestructible than a lot of the higher end materials used in more expensive Spydies. The FRN models adhere to the KISS principle a bit more than a lot of the more expensive models.
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Depends on how you try to destroy it. FRN melts and burns at a much lower temperature than CF, G-10, or micarta. It also abrades and deforms more easily. On the other hand, I've bent a Spyderco FRN handle slab until the ends touched. While it's true that it bends more easily than any of those other materials, it's also true that all of them would have snapped long before the 45º mark. It also will not shatter like the others will if hit hard enough.

Paul
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My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Kiwimania ---- Spydiewiki
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twisted up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam
 
The Delica and Endura have, to my knowledge, been the most widely used and fielded FRN knives in the world, with millions in circulation all over the globe.

I wouldn't worry too much about them breaking.
 
The Deacon said:
Depends on how you try to destroy it. FRN melts and burns at a much lower temperature than CF, G-10, or micarta. It also abrades and deforms more easily. On the other hand, I've bent a Spyderco FRN handle slab until the ends touched. While it's true that it bends more easily than any of those other materials, it's also true that all of them would have snapped long before the 45º mark. It also will not shatter like the others will if hit hard enough.

Paul
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My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Kiwimania ---- Spydiewiki
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twisted up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam
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And it won't delaminate like G10 or Micarta if dropped on end.

I was 34 feet up on a sailboat mast, and I dropped my Saver Salt onto cement.

It dinged the FRN and spine.

Oh no! :D
 
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