From Cattle Knife to Stockman!

waynorth

waynorth

Dealer / Materials Provider
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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There are many versions of the origins of these patterns. I think it is generally accepted that the Cattle knife preceded the Stockman. Put another way, the Stockman grew out of the Cattle knife, which is an older pattern. There are some other steps in the evolution, but my goal is to create some pictorial enjoyment through a very simplified set of pictures.
I am hoping you good viewers will fill in the story! Add your pictures and opinions. I'd love to see those patterns that provided mid-way steps, i.e; the premium Cattle knife etc!
You may remember these Case Cattle knives from another thread. Here they are again for illustrative purposes, followed by some comparisons, and some Stockman knives!
Please enjoy, and jump in!!:)
Case XX six A.jpg Catt to Stock 1.jpg Catt to Stock 2.jpg 6347 1.jpg 6347 2.jpg 6347 3.jpg
 
Charlie, first the cattle knife thread and now this! :eek: Boy oh boy am I excited to see all the lovely knives. :thumbsup:

Cattle knives often seem to have a spear, sheepsfoot and pen blade combo. I'm wondering when they started putting pen blades on stockmen since most of them seem to have a spey blade instead of it. Of course a spey blade seems more logical than a pen blade, considering the knives' intended use. Is there also any specific reason behind the switching from cigar frame to serpentine? It makes for a slimmer knife but I'd imagine the fellers wouldn't mind a "beefy" cigar frame while wrestling steers ... o_O :D
 
ISKRA said:
Charlie, first the cattle knife thread and now this! :eek: Boy oh boy am I excited to see all the lovely knives. :thumbsup:

Cattle knives often seem to have a spear, sheepsfoot and pen blade combo. I'm wondering when they started putting pen blades on stockmen since most of them seem to have a spey blade instead of it. Of course a spey blade seems more logical than a pen blade, considering the knives' intended use. Is there also any specific reason behind the switching from cigar frame to serpentine? It makes for a slimmer knife but I'd imagine the fellers wouldn't mind a "beefy" cigar frame while wrestling steers ... o_O :D
Click to expand...

I didn't realize some of them come with a pen instead of a sort. I actually prefer the pen. Thanks!
 
Thanks Dave, ISKRA and OH!! I'm happy that you are happy to see them!!:thumbsup:

I like seeing that old, mellow Greenbone, Txjohn! Especially after all those years and miles, it's nice to see it still doing its job!!:thumbsup:

There are other variations, that I wish I had, popedandy. I'd like to find more punch-carrying Stockmen for instance; oh, and a Greenbone; and, and, and!!:)
 
BTW, for the heck of it, I weighed the two knives in the second picture (Case 6345 1/2, and Case 6347 1/2). The Cattle is 2.95oz, and the Stockman is 2.77oz. That's a .18oz difference - not much in my opinion, but I guess you might feel it:rolleyes:????
With a California (slim) Clip blade, the pattern number changes from 6347 1/2 to 63047 1/2 for the slimmer knife. Note that a sheepfoot blade will ride higher in the Stockman, which is slimmer than the Cattleman.
 
Oh, I stockman thread! Oh how I love stockman pattern! Probably because it’s what my grandfather and father both carried. I’ll get around to posting grandpas. Dad still has his himself, thankfully.

Sorry, I can’t help much with history or development. All I can do is post some porn of mine, and learn from you guys. I am trying to limit myself on production knives atm to get more customs. I am waiting on an ohta stockman and a kawamura that I hope I can still get him to make.

But for now. I probably shouldn’t open with this one. But it is one of my top 3 or 4 knives I own. Mr Dunlap kindly tuned it up recently for me.

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Nice knives, guys!

Charlie, I'd also like to see a "premier cattle"!

Some fun historical examples (but no example of the "premier" which I'm not sure if I've ever seen!)...

The English were very thoughtful and put the pattern names on these blades. :)

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1890, "Cattle knife" (etched on blade!)
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1910, "Premium Stock Knife" (etched on blade!)
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But then things can get a little more complicated... ;) The catalog describes the pattern as a "stock pattern". The book definition is a "transitional cattle" since it has a spear blade. But the catalog cut is from 1910 and the first stock knives are from around 20 years earlier. This pattern was made for many years. Does it continue to be a "transitional" pattern long after the transition occurred? As another example, Cattaraugus made similar knives with spear blades at least 40 years after the the first stock knives. Are those still transitional?
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1910, stockman. Seems to fit the book definition very well. Typically described by the modern collector term: "sowbelly" (a stockman with a big curve).
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1910, cattle knife. Uh oh! Same pattern as above but called a cattle knife instead of stock knife! Even etched the blade!
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Unfortunately a tie breaker doesn't settle things. This 1910 catalog cut describes the pattern as both "cattle" and "serpentine"! :rolleyes:
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And then there are these fancy knives that Maher & Grosh calls a stock knife but books call a "fancy" cattle knife derivative (surveyor or swell center canoe)
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Those case cattle knives you got there are just plain Gorgeous, I'm not against a straight back spey but those full swedged pen blades are just awesome looking.

Thanks for sharing those pictures.
 
Premium stock knife with a wedged back spring. Fairly common pattern 100 years ago. I don't have a photo handy but Winchester (Queen) made a relatively recent example... from the 80s iirc. Old catalogs made no distinction between stock knives with regular or wedged back springs... but I sometimes call it a stockittler. :D
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Craftsman/Schrade that I bought on the Bladeforums Exchange
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Shapleigh Diamond Edge Stock & Cattle Knives
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Case 6332
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Remington
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Various "sowbelly" stock knives. The one on the far left was made by Stan Shaw for Ibberson in the 70s. The others are from around the 1910s and 1920s.
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Yes it struck me as slightly illogical that the pattern should have evolved into something which incorporates a pen blade in favour of a lamb foot on the four blade version. Its great to have a spearpoint, all be it a small one, but its seems a lamb foot would be more appropriate on a knife associated with..well...stock. I would have said that it was even stranger in that the standard stockman almost always incorporates the lamb foot and the cattle knife generally has an awl but not a pen blade, but supratentorial has shown that this was not always the case in early versions. Perhaps it was an attempt, on the part of manufactures, to make the pattern more of an all rounder in later times. I don't know...just thinking aloud really. Anyway, enjoying the cattle knife threads and learning a lot.:thumbsup:

Here's my modern Colt version. Maybe not a match for the handsome Case model but a good knife none the less. Might be described as presentation quality Rough Rider in terms of quality (polished springs etc.) in a similar price bracket. Good knife and an affordable version of the pattern. :thumbsup::)
Untitled by Blake Blade, on Flickr
 
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I will admit I like pen blades over spey. Maybe because many guys did more writing than speying as ranch owners?

I also like the wharncliff over sheepsfoot but that’s just preference. I’ve often wondered why the straight edge didn’t end up on oppsotire end it was so that the main and straight edge both opened right handed. I’ve asked my next one to be made that way and can’t wait to try that out.
 
Nice to see all these stockman variations showing up!!
We may never overcome the whimsy with which the marketing departments label their Cattle and Stockman knives! But there are some great examples of many variations.
It is nice to think of that last knife above being shipped to my old home town, as it "shuffled off to Buffalo"!!
How far from Buffalo are you, Gev??
 
waynorth said:
Nice to see all these stockman variations showing up!!
We may never overcome the whimsy with which the marketing departments label their Cattle and Stockman knives! But there are some great examples of many variations.
It is nice to think of that last knife above being shipped to my old home town, as it "shuffled off to Buffalo"!!
How far from Buffalo are you, Gev??
Click to expand...
Buffalo → Austin
1,560 miles

1 day 3 hrs inModerate traffic

Via I-40 W, I-30 W

22 hr 13 min without traffic
 
Have another Case, USA stock knife to add..... the same one I believe everyone here has seen at least a couple times! :rolleyes:
Bought her brand spankin new in `70 I believe and packed her for many years! :) Not ANYWHERE near as nice as Charlies, but a lot of memories come with this old girl for me....;)
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Dave
 
Gevonovich said:
Buffalo → Austin
1,560 miles

1 day 3 hrs inModerate traffic

Via I-40 W, I-30 W

22 hr 13 min without traffic
Click to expand...
Aha!! Less than a day in ideal conditions!! I wonder who/how many brought it to you, Gev??
:D

A well cared-for Stockman Dave!!:thumbsup: Looks like it worked hard and well!!:cool:
 
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