GEC...Please Make More Patterns Available To Us in 440C...yea or nea ?

[Chief]

GEC does a good job with 440, 154CM would be a nice step up.

 

[black mamba]

I would love to see their #81 or #82 stockman patterns in stainless. I would certainly buy as many of the different covers as I could afford, and even some I couldn't afford!

 

[Camillus]

Stainless stockmans - I figure these are such guaranteed winners that Bill is saving them up for a rainy day.

I have just picked up a few Queens - never realised how good these are/were previously due to viewing so much negativity toward the Queen brand on these forums. I have a barlow, camp knife and gunstock pattern and am delighted by all three. Their stainless blades are the icing on a very nice cake.

 

[black mamba]

Cam, every Queen/S&M I've ever handled from the '90s through about 2010 has been very well made.

 

[Camillus]

Yeah, you wouldn’t believe it if you only read these forums! I am a little annoyed as I feel a bit misled, but my bank account is likely in better shape...

 

[sitflyer]

GEC does a good job with 440, 154CM would be a nice step up.

Nice pair there Chief! Yeah, but they have only used 440C and 420... So this thread was about the 440C . Now I've found out that the Farm & Field soddies no longer have the 01 steel!? That really sucks! GEC just seems to want to be a rust peddler

 

[brownshoe]

More stainless, but why not 154cm?

It costs more in materials and manufacturing expenses to use 154CM than 440C. GEC preferred steel, 1095, is pretty cheap in the cost of materials and manufacturing when compared to 440C, 154CM, ATS34, M390, S35VN, etc. steels.

 

[black mamba]

I've never understood why companies don't use AEB-L (13c26) for stainless folders. They stamp out razor blades with it, so it must machine easily, and it can harden to over 60 while producing a VERY fine edge. Seems like the stainless version of 1095 to me, and should be less expensive than 440C.

 

[oldtymer]

I've never understood why companies don't use AEB-L (13C26) for stainless folders. They stamp out razor blades with it, so it must machine easily, and it can harden to over 60 while producing a VERY fine edge. Seems like the stainless version of 1095 to me, and should be less expensive than 440C.

Don't know about the price part but there are some fine kitchen knives made with AEB-L. Edge retention is good, not too hard to sharpen & very stain resistant.

 

[Will Power]

Isn't that a Sandvik steel? The kind you get on most French Lags?

 

[Will Power]

Yeah, you wouldn’t believe it if you only read these forums! I am a little annoyed as I feel a bit misled, but my bank account is likely in better shape...

My experience is that the Queens after about 2012 till the end were really not up to snuff in F&F.
The early years of this century and the D2 range were very worthwhile.

 

[black mamba]

Isn't that a Sandvik steel? The kind you get on most French Lags?

Will, 13c26 is Sandvik, while AEB-L is Bohler-Uddeholm. Both are Swedish made.

 

[Will Power]

Thanks Jeff

 

[JTB_5]

Sandvick 12c27 works just fine for me and the 14c28n is a good step up. European knife makers have been making knives with those for quite a while. I wonder if some of the older makers use older equipment and still get along fine?

 

[traumkommode]

I've had great results with AEB-L and the Sandvik steels. They take a ridiculously keen edge just as easily as 1095. Hold it longer and are just as tough.

 

[black mamba]

Traum, that is my point in a nutshell. With these steels, you get all the pluses of 1095, plus other pluses!
Longer edge holding and stain resistance, and still with the toughness, ease of sharpening and fine edges that 1095 provides. It's time to move into the 21st century with blade steels. Even though I like 440C, its large carbides are not ideal for smallish traditional pocket knife blades. To me, AEB-L @ 60-61 HRc would be practically ideal.

 

[traumkommode]

Traum, that is my point in a nutshell. With these steels, you get all the pluses of 1095, plus other pluses!
Longer edge holding and stain resistance, and still with the toughness, ease of sharpening and fine edges that 1095 provides. It's time to move into the 21st century with blade steels. Even though I like 440C, its large carbides are not ideal for smallish traditional pocket knife blades. To me, AEB-L @ 60-61 HRc would be practically ideal.

Agreed. I used one of those stainless GEC #15s to bread down a bunch of cardboard one day. The blade performed admirably, but needed stone sharpening afterward, and honestly an S90V Spyderco Native or PM2 would have been a better tool for that kind of job. And I can't imagine that 440C heat treatment/machining is any easier than AEB-L.

Traditions (and mindsets) run really deep, though. I still here lots of people here in Appalachia talk about how carbon steels are across the board better than stainless steels, easier to sharpen, get sharper and stay sharp longer, etc. Don't ya know, Earth ain't flat no more...

 

[sitflyer]

OK, so it's no secret that I am a SS lover, and the knives that I do have made from GEC's 440C steel are among my favorite blades. They got the grinds, and they got the heat treat coupled with aesthetically pleasing patterns and handle materials.
So I was thinking that I would post a thread to let us "lovers of the stainless" speak out! I am curious as to how many people will respond to this,
I will post pics of what I currently have in 440C and invite all to do likewise.
My main objective though, is to see what response comes from a prospective consumer base...how many people wish there was more offered in this steel from GEC and GEC alone.




more pics to come...lets see those acorn shields!

When I started this thread, things were so much different than today. I was a little naive regarding GEC and the vision that drove the companies success. At that time, in my mind, GEC was facing competition from Queen, Canal Street, and even to some small extent Case. GEC kept doing what they do, and producing 1095 bladed knives, and to this day they are selling very well from all appearances. No more are the days of Queen or CSC, and in my opinion, Case is not really a competitor to GEC or vice versa, they both do what they do and it works. I like 1095, but living in the south, summers are brutal on my blades. I like 440C, always have, something about the way it sharpens and cuts just always felt somehow right to me.

It always pleased me when I'd see this thread pop back up after such a long life, but perhaps the original intention of this thread is no longer relevant. A big surprise to me is that I have kind of done a 180 degree in my thinking on the subject. As I learned a few years back, reading an old post by Joe Houser about why Buck knives switch to 420HC, it was because they switched to fine blanking the blades, and the 440C was beating the heck out of their tooling and machines...so actually, nowadays I think GEC should probably avoid using much of the 440C, to preserve their equipment . As for the newer blade steels, sure, I have tried quite a few of them and like what they bring to the table, but I don't see GEC jumping on any of them any time soon. Could they?, sure, should they or would they? Who knows, why rock a boat that is sailing smoothly along. I'm pondering sending this thread down the rabbit hole of posterity, and these are the reasons my mind is in that direction...

 

[Kiteman72]

I like this thread!

It keeps all the "why doesn't GEC make more stainless" chatter in one place that's apart from the "Let's Talk GEC" thread.

 

[Will Power]

The thread is a very interesting on-going discussion I think.

Now that GEC has no direct competitors offering stainless variants, it could become entrenched and complacent and simply believe there is no point win offering stainless blades at all. This would be unwelcome in my view, it's something of a paradox that 'Traditional' pocket knives have attracted more interest from a fairly broad spectrum of knife enthusiasts and GEC has had a major influence on this. The paradox being that liking for stainless steels on Traditional pocket knives is not some fringe splinter group but a significant and potentially growing segment.

As traumkommode points out, traditional mindsets can run deep, with the carbon is better mantra,stainless is poor stuff being repeated. But they certainly are not eternal. One reason Modern knives have become the front seller is not just locks or one handed openers but the availability of interesting steels that won't rust/oxidize up, lose edge quite quickly etc. The perception being that Traditionals or 'Grandpa' knives are only available in carbon and that enthusiasts for Traditionals look down on stainless as characterless or unauthentic. By no means always the case!

I've never had much time for the nostalgia tinged sentiment of what was good enough for my grandfather was good enough for me, that can correlate to carbon steel on Traditionals. My grandfathers were born in the c19th and died before I was born so I don't have a connexion with them. True, their world was apparently slower paced, likely more courteous and formal, valued education for its own sake. But, it contained two World Wars, revolutions, it also had dentistry without antibiotics or much anaesthetic or pain relief....I have no liking for traditional dentistry I can tell you My experiences of say Sandvik steels on French Traditional knives and some Bark Rivers has been very positive, no sweat to edge it and it stays that way longer than 1095 at least, no rust, spotting ,flavour imparted on foods and in satin form looks very good with traditional materials of all kinds, nor is it vastly expensive either.

Nor is this some either/or matrix. Most of us have carbon knives we're very proud of, rightly so. I feel like I have enough 1095 pocket knives and it is beginning to sap my interest in GEC. It's just that GEC should think this one over-I hope they are at least - as there are definite future returns in using some new steels AS WELL.