-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is $300 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Gerber LMF 2 vs Ka-Bar U.S.M.C Short vs Esee 5
- Thread starter esspro98
- Start date
Any knife is better than none for survival. It depends on what "survival" might mean for the individual, and what environment.
The USMC short has actually been around for a long time, with other handles. I had one of those older versions, it can field dress a deer. It's fairly simple, the clip is sharpened, but that isn't used much. Parkerizing will wear off. The leather will need treatment over time, if allowed to wet down and dry repeatedly, it shrinks - requiring repair. That takes more than a few years, but if longevity is considered, it's a factor. It's not a flat ground blade, which puts some friction in cuts. The typical notch behind the guard implies a weak spot to be avoided when beating on the blade back to split wood. I won't dignify the process with the word batoning, it's simply beating on the blade. Things can go bad - if wood cutting is that important, you should have taken an axe. Goes for the other knives, too.
The LMF II is 420HC stainless, which is no advantage. The black treatment will eventually wear. It's also saber ground, which can add friction when cutting. There's no significant strength advantage in cross section, the alloy, thickness, and heat treat can compensate - what is gained is less grinding and labor to profile the blade. It's cheaper. Molded handle should be strong enough captured by the butt, it implies it can be used as a hammer if you like having the return of a point coming back at you while striking. In a real survival situation, it's not optimum, tho. If no suitable rock is available, it has to be asked what is being pounded on anyway? The military oriented hype on the Gerber page is typical, in real use, cutting your way out of a downed aircraft and living off the land is not likely. Not many walk away whole - better to have included a firesteel than a special belt cutter, but each maker tilts the options to their market.
The ESEE 5 is well regarded, can be had with a kit and pouch for the sheath, is flat ground which cuts more easily, although the 5 is the heavier version. The tip is raised compared to the others, it's more for true survival and field craft, not military use. The paint coating will wear, too. Handle scales are rough micarta that bolts on, which leaves the tang exposed, a consideration if you work on sabotaging high voltage wire ( like with the Gerber. Really?)
None of this means any one is a bad pick or has no value. What is likely done by a purchaser is to decide which reflects the image the would like to have expressed about the owner - nothing much to do with knowing actual survival skills. In that regard, a knife is needed, so is some way to gather water, purify it, and carry it, and that carrying the knife needs more than a passing thought. The sheath should be designed to protect the user, durable, and impervious to decay. You be able to fall onto it with no worry the blade could penetrate the sheath and create an injury.
It's more than just a knife, overall, the ESEE is the best fit for living off the land. It's been designed by an instructor group that teaches living off the land, and uses it in the field themselves, which is the best recommendation. That doesn't mean an experienced user can't with the other two - but if starting out in the subject, then stick with a survival knife made for a survival instruction class. That is something more likely to be done than chopping your way out of a plexiglass canopy - frankly, if you are being transported that way, you should have been issued the knife and already trained with it.
Practicing in the local campground cutting up chicken for supper is what it's really about, a macho military knife isn't going to win the hearts and minds of the ladies in the next camp over . . . the smell of chicken l'orange will go a lot further . . .
The USMC short has actually been around for a long time, with other handles. I had one of those older versions, it can field dress a deer. It's fairly simple, the clip is sharpened, but that isn't used much. Parkerizing will wear off. The leather will need treatment over time, if allowed to wet down and dry repeatedly, it shrinks - requiring repair. That takes more than a few years, but if longevity is considered, it's a factor. It's not a flat ground blade, which puts some friction in cuts. The typical notch behind the guard implies a weak spot to be avoided when beating on the blade back to split wood. I won't dignify the process with the word batoning, it's simply beating on the blade. Things can go bad - if wood cutting is that important, you should have taken an axe. Goes for the other knives, too.
The LMF II is 420HC stainless, which is no advantage. The black treatment will eventually wear. It's also saber ground, which can add friction when cutting. There's no significant strength advantage in cross section, the alloy, thickness, and heat treat can compensate - what is gained is less grinding and labor to profile the blade. It's cheaper. Molded handle should be strong enough captured by the butt, it implies it can be used as a hammer if you like having the return of a point coming back at you while striking. In a real survival situation, it's not optimum, tho. If no suitable rock is available, it has to be asked what is being pounded on anyway? The military oriented hype on the Gerber page is typical, in real use, cutting your way out of a downed aircraft and living off the land is not likely. Not many walk away whole - better to have included a firesteel than a special belt cutter, but each maker tilts the options to their market.
The ESEE 5 is well regarded, can be had with a kit and pouch for the sheath, is flat ground which cuts more easily, although the 5 is the heavier version. The tip is raised compared to the others, it's more for true survival and field craft, not military use. The paint coating will wear, too. Handle scales are rough micarta that bolts on, which leaves the tang exposed, a consideration if you work on sabotaging high voltage wire ( like with the Gerber. Really?)
None of this means any one is a bad pick or has no value. What is likely done by a purchaser is to decide which reflects the image the would like to have expressed about the owner - nothing much to do with knowing actual survival skills. In that regard, a knife is needed, so is some way to gather water, purify it, and carry it, and that carrying the knife needs more than a passing thought. The sheath should be designed to protect the user, durable, and impervious to decay. You be able to fall onto it with no worry the blade could penetrate the sheath and create an injury.
It's more than just a knife, overall, the ESEE is the best fit for living off the land. It's been designed by an instructor group that teaches living off the land, and uses it in the field themselves, which is the best recommendation. That doesn't mean an experienced user can't with the other two - but if starting out in the subject, then stick with a survival knife made for a survival instruction class. That is something more likely to be done than chopping your way out of a plexiglass canopy - frankly, if you are being transported that way, you should have been issued the knife and already trained with it.
Practicing in the local campground cutting up chicken for supper is what it's really about, a macho military knife isn't going to win the hearts and minds of the ladies in the next camp over . . . the smell of chicken l'orange will go a lot further . . .
What do you mean by "survival"? What do you expect a knife to do during "survival"? Knowing that will help us make a more-effective recommendation.
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2012
- Messages
- 668
Forget about the lmf, they aren't worth the money. However the ESEE 5 is an amazing hunk of steel, and to stay in the likeness of these blades already mentioned, why not look at a kabar bk2 vs the usmc short? My brother has the bk2 and uses it side by side with my ESEE 5, they are both a joy to use for heavy camp chores. Good luck!
