Gerber Mark I Experts...I have a question

[Rezin]

I purchased this recently to add to the collection.

Appears as New Old Stock with box, wrapping paper, warranty.

From what I have seen here on the forum, the serial number can be inconclusive as detailed records are lacking. However, the blade on this knife is 5 inches, rather than 4 1/2 inches which indicates to me that this is an original series knife made of L6 steel.

Am I wrong?

Thanks

 

[tltt]

Cordura sheaths didn't happen till '84 or '85, by then they were 440c.

Edit - I also just now noticed a "s" at the end of your serial number, on the Mk II patterns, that denotes stainless, probably the same for the Mk I's.

 

[Rezin]

I thought the same when I saw the "s" in the serial number. But why does it have a 5 inch blade? I have read on the forum that only the initial series had a blade of that length, with a 4 1/2 inch blade being used on the later series.

 

[tltt]

I'm not so sure on the blade length rule some use, for example, Gerber was using 5" stainless blades on the President's series in the 80's. Anyway, I had a hunch that the G not having that inside arm on the Gerber logo might be a key to help dating it further, and I found this on the Mk II's -

https://militarycarryknives.com/MKKNIVES/MkKnives.htm#BladeLogos . Scroll to near bottom.

.

"4) Second Vertical Logo: This is the fourth logo to appear on Gerber Mark II blades and is distinguished in several ways. First, the sword axis is vertical and in line with the knife blade's long axis rather than being slanted and the sword has a more stylized look. Second, the stone part of the logo is made up of mostly triangular shapes stacked together rather than the previous 4-sided angular blocks. Third, of the two portions of the "stone" to the left of the sword, the top of the one further to the left is slightly higher than the one closer to the sword. Forth, the letter "G" in the Gerber name does not have a horizontal portion pointing back to the inside of the letter. This logo was used during the years 1990-1998 in the approximate serial number range of I6162S to the end of normal production, N4121S being the last serial number I have noted. I don't know the reason for this logo change. Note that there is a large overlap between the start of the Vertical 2 and end of the Vertical 1 logos indicating that both were being produced at the same time.".

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So taking in the Cordura sheath years, the "S" at the end of the serial number, plus that logo info, I'd believe it's stainless.

 

[jlauffer]

My Mark I and sheath are identical, including the S at the end of the serial number. I bought it brand new from Cutlery Shoppe in the mid 90's, and it came in the blue and black box. It is 440 stainless.

 

[Rezin]

I took a look at my Mark II, which I purchased new around 1979 - 1980, and it does indeed have the sword at an angle and a different overall look as shown above. Therefore, it appears that the Mark I I bought is a product of the 1990's. I'm certainly not disappointed with it as I've long wanted to add this to the collection. I'm also not a steel snob and I don't look down on 440.

The one thing I guess I've learned is that the 5 inch versus the 4 1/2 inch blade is meaningless when trying to date this particular model of Gerber.

I thank you for your expertise.

 

[jeepin]

I wish Gerber would bring those back. They are so awesome!

 

[sgt1372]

I purchased this recently to add to the collection.

Appears as New Old Stock with box, wrapping paper, warranty.

From what I have seen here on the forum, the serial number can be inconclusive as detailed records are lacking. However, the blade on this knife is 5 inches, rather than 4 1/2 inches which indicates to me that this is an original series knife made of L6 steel.

Am I wrong?

Thanks

As you've discovered, there are 2 versions of the Mk 1 - 5 and 4.5".

Unlike the Mark II, apparently no accurate records were kept regarding the dating of the Mark I Gerbers. However, according to the following referenced site, the 5" versions were made between 1976 and 1980, while the 4.5" verisons were made from 1981-1987.

Also those made between 1976-1981 were purportedly made w/L6 tool steel while those made later were purportedly made w/an unidentified "high carbon surgical stainless steel " - probably 440C as was used in the Mark II).

See: http://knifecollector.net/GerberMKI_Info.html

However, I'm not sure how accurate this information is because I've got 2 Mark I's and neither of them is either exactly 5 or 4.5" long.

One is 4 7/8" and the other is 4 3/4" long; the former is numbered 087982 and the later 131121.

I believe (but cannot verify) that any Mark I that uses a letter in the serial number (as found on the Mark II's) are later in mfg than mine, as is the case w/the Mark IIs.

The dating and construction of Mark II Gerbers is much more accurately recorded. See: http://militarycarryknives.com/MKDATETABLE/MkDateTable.htm

My guess is that my Mark Is were made around 1980-1981 using 440C steel, since they predate the use of letters and 440C in the Mark II beginning in 1982.

I also have a Mark II numbered 085606, which is I identify as made in 1980 w/440C steel consistent with this information.

BTW, sorry to tell you that the nylon sheath (as well as the letters in the serial number) almost certainly marks your Mark I as a much later model, regardless of the length which apparently was NOT carefully regulated based on the length of my knives.

Older Mark Is only came w/leather sheaths.

Your Mark I is still a GREAT boot knife, regardless of the date of mfg, but it might not be worth what you paid for it, it if was represented as older than it really is. My guess is that is was made in the 90's.

 

[Rezin]

Based on all the input and what I have been able to learn online, I can see that this Mark I is a product of the 1990's. However, the blade is exactly 5 inches long.

Complicates things a bit as I have read that the blade length was reduced to 4 1/2 inches post-1981.

I have also learned that the Mark II I purchased new was built in 1981 using the excellent table referred to above.

The Mark I was represented as is and no representation was made as to date of manufacture or type of steel used. I am very happy with the acquisition. Frankly, I would pay the same for a new one if Gerber still made them.

Again, thanks to all for the information.

 

[Danke42]

You'd have to think the factory had a big stack of blades they worked through before moving the shorter size during the year. While that change was happening the new sheaths came in. That sort of change is pretty normal for any kind of large manufacturing concern. It's the little guy that can make a black and white change happen quickly.

 

[Zebs1]

Interesting discussion! I have 4 Mark 1. The oldiest is from year 1976/7 w green handle. It has 5´ blade.
One from approx. 1981, it has a 4,8´ . Then I three from the mid-late 90ties (w cordura sheath) they have 5´ blades.

Why is it so difficult to attach pictures??

 

[KenHash]

I'm no expert in Gerbers, but it seems to me that one drop of white vinegar will quickly deternmine if it's L6 or 440C.

 

[D.Croce]

I'm no expert in Gerbers, but it seems to me that one drop of white vinegar will quickly deternmine if it's L6 or 440C.

Please can you tell me what that does? I’ve acquired a few knives lately and I’m unsure of the steel. I have been buying Gerbers lately and I prefer the L6 tool steel for the simple fact that I believe it’s a sturdier steel on the Gerber’s in particular. I’ve owned many Gerber blades since I was teenager in the 80’s. And although have never abused my knives I have had problems with the tips breaking on 440c knives. I’m not steel snob and don’t mind 440c it’s just personal preference when it comes to older Gerber knives.
One more question for anyone out there, I see a Gerber Mark I on eBay right now and there serial number ends with the letter C. Does anyone know what that means? Any reply would be much appreciated! Thanks

 

[tltt]

The vinegar on L6 would miscolor/stain it a tiny bit indicating carbon steel, 440c would be unharmed.

I've never seen what the c means, the s just happens to show up on stainless knives.

 

[KenHash]

Please can you tell me what that does? I’ve acquired a few knives lately and I’m unsure of the steel. I have been buying Gerbers lately and I prefer the L6 tool steel for the simple fact that I believe it’s a sturdier steel on the Gerber’s in particular. I’ve owned many Gerber blades since I was teenager in the 80’s. And although have never abused my knives I have had problems with the tips breaking on 440c knives. I’m not steel snob and don’t mind 440c it’s just personal preference when it comes to older Gerber knives.
One more question for anyone out there, I see a Gerber Mark I on eBay right now and there serial number ends with the letter C. Does anyone know what that means? Any reply would be much appreciated! Thanks

The vinegar test can only tell you if a blade is Carbon Steel or Stainless Steel. If it is Carbon Steel a drop of vinegar on it will turn color, usually white. And it happens like within 30 seconds. If it is Stainless Steel the vinegar will remain clear unchanged no matter how long it is on the blade.
The drop of vinegar wipes right off with no damage to the blade.

I have used this method to identify knives that I knew were made in both Carbon and Stainless at different times of production.

 

[vjb.knife]

Gerber shipped the first few series of Mark I's in off white cardboard boxes like these in the picture. The mark I was designed by Al Mar when he worked for Gerber in the early 1970's. The first model of the Mark I was produced in 1976 and was like the one in the lower part of this picture. Like the Mark II's of this production year the Mark I's were delivered in dark green leather sheaths, but the Mark I's had Armorhide painted handles the were also dark green, like the lower knife in this picture. You will also notice the stitching is white and larger in spacing. The upper knife is the next year's model which had a black leather sheath and black Armorhide handles. Evident by the ricasso the earlier model is forged L6, while the next model is hand ground L6. As mentioned above the cordura sheaths did not show up until later around 1985 or 86. They are also correct that the steel was changed from L6 Tool steel to 440C stainless around 1980. The knives in this picture have no letters in their serial numbers. The older one is 007810 and the black one is 082412. The color is hard to see in this photo but easy in person under proper light.

By the way, this vinegar test is not a very conclusive way to judge cs vs ss.

 

[VorpelSword]

I have no detailed knowledge of the Gerber knives, so this may not be good info . . .

It is my understanding that the earliest ones had " in the alignment of the handle with the blade.

Does this have any bearing on getting an ID on the knife in the OP?

 

[vjb.knife]

I have no detailed knowledge of the Gerber knives, so this may not be good info . . .

It is my understanding that the earliest ones had " in the alignment of the handle with the blade.

Does this have any bearing on getting an ID on the knife in the OP?

If you are talking about the canted blade in relationship to the handle that would be the first 3750 or so of the Mark II knife not the Mark I which was never canted.

 

[OPSEC-C-C]

The Gerber catalogs have 76 & 77 stating 5 inch blade. I do not have a 78 but 79 states 4 3/4inch. I do not have 80 but 81- 97 states 4 3/4 inch.

 

[Ujiyo]

I'm trying to date by Gerber Mk.1. If I could insert the pic, I would. It has the sword standing vertically on 7 triangular rocks. The serial is B8489S. If anyone can help date this knife, I'd really appreciate it.