German Bull knives

R

R Hensley

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Jan 9, 2020
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I've been looking at a German Bull knife in the Mushrat pattern. It doesn't say what steel it is only that it is stainless and hand made. I was wondering if anyone has owned one and if so how they like it and maybe what steel it its. My computer skills are limited. I've been trying to find it and info on it but with no luck. I do have a few Bokers that I like but not a mushrat . I've found a Henckel but it's way out of my range in price. Thanks
 
German Bull brand is owned by Frost Cutlery. So the newer ones are probably made in China with 440A type stainless steel blades.
Some are listed as "German Stainless" without really saying where they're made, but I doubt they're made in Germany.

For a Muskrat patterned knife with a similar price point , I'd recommend Case.
If you don't care where they're made , Rough Ryder is a good, lower priced alternative and RR doesn't hide that they're made in China.
 
If it is a true German stainless steel, then it is likely the cheap 1.4034. (X46Cr13) steel ( roughly a 420J equivalent with somewhat higher carbon than most 420J). It could be an acceptable user steel for non-whittling uses if the heat treat is adequate. If it is a Chinese steel, it could be any cheap stainless, even lower quality than 440A. Actually 440A would be nice, based on the Rough Ryders, the heat treat on the 440As is usually good. If it is made in Pakistan, I would pass.
 
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JPD1998 said:
German Bull brand is owned by Frost Cutlery. So the newer ones are probably made in China with 440A type stainless steel blades.
Some are listed as "German Stainless" without really saying where they're made, but I doubt they're made in Germany.

For a Muskrat patterned knife with a similar price point , I'd recommend Case.
If you don't care where they're made , Rough Ryder is a good, lower priced alternative and RR doesn't hide that they're made in China.
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Thanks. That helps a lot. I’m also looking at a kissing crane. I’ve had them before but not the mushrat. I may go with it
 
I have a couple GB from several years ago. If they say Solingen or made in Germany they should be made there. The quality of those I have is OK but they are not very "polished" as a product. Same with KC.
 
calm said:
If they say Solingen or made in Germany they should be made there.
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Made in Germany nowadays can mean anything from fully made in Germany to assembled or only polished & packaged in Germany.
The terms ‘German’ or ‘Solingen’ could be used in foreign made knives to say ‘German stainless steel’ or ‘Solingen steel’, as for example in the recent Hen & Rooster knives made in Spain.
Dealers’ descriptions implying real Solingen make are frequently and deliberately outdated to bait unsuspecting customers. The most helpful are the tang pictures of the actual knives. When I googled ‘German Bull muskrat’, the most recent models have a tang stamp saying ‘German stainless’ which for me indicates non-German manufacture, likely Chinese.
 
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My thanks to all that responded to my question about the German Bull knives. I remember back in the 70s the German made really meant something I guess now days a companies rep. just doesn't mean as muck. I'm still looking at the kissing crane muskrat. I had a Henckel many years ago that was great skinning squirrels and other small game. loved it. I guess at my age and health I want one because of those days. I don't hunt that much anymore. I have some young fellows next door neighbors that really like to hunt and have got me interested in it again. we field dressed a deer one of them acquired with a bow the other day and I showed them the easy way to do it and used a pocket knife. A Boker trapper. I loaned them my 12 inch India red oil stone and they're learning. Who knows I might just get younger myself.
 
If you want to use the recent German Bull or Kissing Cranes knives for skinning and processing game, you will be disappointed with the lack of edge holding.
Rough Ryder provides some nice carbon steel or Chinese VG10 knives ( look for the wasp micarta handled ones!) which will have better fit & finish and likely better edge holding than the stainless steel blades on the Getman Bulls or the Kissing Cranes.
I think the Roug Ryder wasp small moose or wasp copperhead bow trapper would be perfect for what you want, and cheaper than your other two choices as well.
 
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littleknife said:
If you want to use the recent German Bull or Kissing Cranes knives for skinning and processing game, you will be disappointed with the lack of edge holding.
Rough Ryder provides some nice carbon steel or Chinese VG10 knives ( look for the wasp micarta handled ones!) which will have better fit & finish and likely better edge holding than the stainless steel blades on the Getman Bulls or the Kissing Cranes.
I think the Roug Ryder wasp small moose or wasp copperhead bow trapper would be perfect for what you want, and cheaper than your other two choices as well.
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The kissing crane appears to be one of the older ones. It's carbon steel and not stainless. that's what caught my eye. The Trapper I was talking about when working on the deer is also one of the older carbon steel knives. I've been reading about the 440C stainless for knife blades and what I read seems to be good.
 
The older German Bull and Kissing Crane knives were made in Germany.
Those knives should be great for what you want to use them.
Congratulations and enjoy using them!
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
littleknife said:
Made in Germany nowadays can mean anything from fully made in Germany to assembled or only polished & packaged in Germany.
The terms ‘German’ or ‘Solingen’ could be used in foreign made knives to say ‘German stainless steel’ or ‘Solingen steel’, as for example in the recent Hen & Rooster knives made in Spain.
Dealers’ descriptions implying real Solingen make are frequently and deliberately outdated to bait unsuspecting customers. The most helpful are the tang pictures of the actual knives. When I googled ‘German Bull muskrat’, the most recent models have a tang stamp saying ‘German stainless’ which for me indicates non-German manufacture, likely Chinese.
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There have been threads in the past discussing how to identify if a recent knife of these brands is made mostly in Germany.
There were certain characteristics mentioned including tang stamps (clearly saying where it is made) and colour or type of box, for some brands. Here is one such thread, after a quick search: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/kissing-crane-camp-knife.1861420/#post-21099028
dsutton24 said:
There are no absolutes, but:

When it comes to Solingen-made knives, generally if it says 'Solingen' on the tang stamp it's a German made knife made of German parts. If it's stamped 'Germany' it's assembled in Germany of parts sourced globally, or are made in China in their entirety. I don't know of a sure way to tell the difference. The stiletto style Kissing Cranes are made in Italy.

If you have the box it's a dead giveaway. If it says Kissing Cranes (note the plural) , it's a German made knife. Kissing Crane is Chinese. A shield with Kissing Crane is a Chinese knife.

It's interesting to note that these knives were usually called Kissing Crane long before they started making them in China. Easy, huh?
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I have no idea how accurate the information is, as it was not supplied by me
 
The current Kissing Crane knives are made in China, BudK has owned the brand for the last 12 years.

Hen & Rooster, another German brand is following the same path. That brand is owned by Frost and they've been slowly switching to China production.
I've been buying old stock H&R knives whenever I find one. The old stock H&R knives in the green box have "Made in Germany" printed on the box. The newer ones are in a green box and have "German Steel" ( no country of origin) printed on the box.

Here's a new H&R knife, I couldn't tell you where it's made from any markings on the knife or the box, but its construction doesn't match up with Chinese made knives.

hr2.jpg
 
JPD1998 said:
The current Kissing Crane knives are made in China, BudK has owned the brand for the last 12 years.

Hen & Rooster, another German brand is following the same path. That brand is owned by Frost and they've been slowly switching to China production.
I've been buying old stock H&R knives whenever I find one. The old stock H&R knives in the green box have "Made in Germany" printed on the box. The newer ones are in a green box and have "German Steel" ( no country of origin) printed on the box.

Here's a new H&R knife, I couldn't tell you where it's made from any markings on the knife or the box, but its construction doesn't match up with Chinese made knives.

View attachment 1961445
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Those Hen & Roosters are likely made in Spain. Fit & finish is usually worse than that of the Chinese made Rough Ryders or Marble’s, and the price is much higher too.
 
littleknife said:
Those Hen & Roosters are likely made in Spain. Fit & finish is usually worse than that of the Chinese made Rough Ryders or Marble’s, and the price is much higher too.
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I thought it might be Spain, actually the fit & finish on my knife is not bad.
The stag is nice and evenly matched, the blades are flush with the back spring when open, and have a slight hollow grind, like Case.
No gaps in the back springs that I can see and everything is tight.

I'd pick it over a Rough Ryder, but whether it's worth 4x the price is debatable.
But I'm a sucker for European Stag. :)
 
JPD1998 said:
I thought it might be Spain, actually the fit & finish on my knife is not bad.
The stag is nice and evenly matched, the blades are flush with the back spring when open, and have a slight hollow grind, like Case.
No gaps in the back springs that I can see and everything is tight.

I'd pick it over a Rough Ryder, but whether it's worth 4x the price is debatable.
But I'm a sucker for European Stag. :)
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I am glad yours was fine. Mine was “handpicked” by a well known online and ebay dealer and had unevenly matched (thickness and texture) stag, overall fat stag, a missing piece of the stag scales, gaps between the scales and the liner. I shudder to think what would have been a random pick. I usually have bad luck with internet purchases of European made or Case pocketknives, most were disappointment. I had good luck with Queen, Buck Creek and Rough Ryder though.
 
littleknife said:
I am glad yours was fine. Mine was “handpicked” by a well known online and ebay dealer and had unevenly matched (thickness and texture) stag, overall fat stag, a missing piece of the stag scales, gaps between the scales and the liner. I shudder to think what would have been a random pick. I usually have bad luck with internet purchases of European made or Case pocketknives, most were disappointment. I had good luck with Queen, Buck Creek and Rough Ryder though.
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Yes unfortunately it's always a gamble with online dealers.

I've gotten stinkers from all the major brands, but I agree about Rough Ryder. In my experience Rough Ryder is consistent. Although I've noticed a slight downgrade in QC with them compared to some of the older ones I have.
But then again some Rough Ryders are so good I can't believe they're so inexpensive. I've recently been looking at their Apta and Burlap Micarta line.
 
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