green river knife

[manassas dragon]

mountain men in the 1840's supposedly carried hawken rifles and green river knives as a preference. can anybody describe such a knife or even better post a picture of an original or even replica. i've heard them described as having an approximate 8" blade and a plain wooden handle. i suspect that they looked similar to an old hickory butcher knife. any info would be appreciated.

 

[jawilder]

I think something like this is what you are thinking of
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categ...D=201&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1&as=1&as=1

 

[manassas dragon]

i know about those but i don't know if those knives are authenic reproductions of the original knives coming out in the 1840's. they probably are i just wanted to see if they are bona fide replicas.

 

[Carl_First_Timer]

This one is called Classic

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categ...ubId=56&styleId=201&partNum=BLADE-RGR-05&as=1

 

[HoosierQ]

The mountain men came from a time before the "hunting knife"...there really were pretty much just "knives". As such a hunter, trapper, butcher, or a cook would have been quite likely to use maybe the exact same knife in their job. As such, just about any full tang kitchen knife with wooden handle scales would be a fair approximation of knives used on the pre-war frontier.

The divergence of hunting knives and kitchen knives came in the middle of the 19th century, pretty much after the Civil War.

 

[james terrio]

i suspect that they looked similar to an old hickory butcher knife.

I suspect you're correct. I'm no expert on the period but the Russells in the link above are likely very close to what trappers, mountain men and regular pioneer moms and dads relied on every day. Even today there's nothing wrong with those designs :thumbup:

 

[Bo T]

I think an 8" butcher will work fine although the scales were probably set with iron pins on the originals. I've read that the newer Russel blades are a high carbon stainless so forcing a patina on them could be difficult. If you want to make your own you might want to search for some of the 10XX blades so the steel will take that dark patina. Alternately, one of the makers here might be willing to make a reproduction in a high carbon steel for you. I don't think Russell started producing many knives until the 1840s, so a pattern from one of the French or English companies from an earlier time frame might suffice.

 

[Phil Dwyer]

Got me dude?! Have you seen the thoughts and references at this link, http://www.mman.us/mythgreenriver.htm as to how the green river knife came late in the game?

Or how about the info below from http://www.thefurtrapper.com/fur_trappers.htm?

Green River Knife
Stamped - J RUSSELL & CO. GREEN RIVER WORKS
A favorite among the Mountain Men, the Green River knives were made in Greenfield, Massachusetts by J. Russell. Started in 1832-34, the factory produced butcher and kitchen knives. The above stamp was used during the 1840s. For several years, close to 60,000 Russell knives per year were shipped West.

Mountain Man Knife
Stamped - Thomas Wilson Shear Steel Sheffield, England
This Thomas Wilson knife from Sheffield, England came from the Sioux Reservation in South Dakota.

The http://mtmen.org/ site has an interesting archive section, http://mtmen.org/mtman/bizrecs.html, with about a dozen bills of lading and trade items inventory lists from the early to mid 1800.

Please keep us posted on what you sort out.

 

[Matt Brook]

Try these: http://www.wellingtonsurplus.com.au...n+River+Skinning+Knife+(6+Inch)+-+Model+06221

I have some Green River Carbon blanks at home in the shed somewhere.

 

[Dixieblade57]

mountain men in the 1840's supposedly carried hawken rifles and green river knives as a preference. can anybody describe such a knife or even better post a picture of an original or even replica. i've heard them described as having an approximate 8" blade and a plain wooden handle. i suspect that they looked similar to an old hickory butcher knife. any info would be appreciated.

So far you have got a pretty good representation of that period. The knife evolved off of the table (so to speak). In other words like someone said it evolved from a butcher knife. The Green River knives are a fairly good interpretation of the kind of knife, that was used during that period and most of them were usually just plain old oak for handles. The one with the upswept blade like Phil was picturing was like what they would have called a buffalo skinner, back then.
Most of the other knives back then were what they called trade knives. They were traded by the trappers and settlers to the Indians for goods or passage, furs and such. The trade knives were somewhat different than the Green River Knives though.

This man is one of that periods’ best when it comes to knives of the 17th and 18th century!
http://www.wickellerbe.com/

There is anothr man called Chuck Borrows you might like some of his stuff to. You can google him and here is a link for him!

http://www.wrtcleather.com/tr-books/books-1.shtml

 

[zerogee]

One of the most used, carried, and traded knives of the period were the "scalpers" (as they were later called) -- actually something relatively close to a thin French chefs knife in profile - normally only about 1/16" or so thick. Sheffield companies cranked a lot of them out.